Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

[Guest]

Okay bear with me on this, but I have been watching the Tour de France the last few days and am wondering if some their rules could be implemented into a 5k or 10k running race either on the roads or a track.

I'm looking for input from others as for what rules would work best, but here is what cycling does:

Let's say it is a 100k race: Athletes are given time bonuses for being in the lead at various points of time. Let's say every 20k a five second or 10 second bonus is given to the winner of that leg. Something similar to this does actually happen in the Tour de France.

How about doing that in track? Maybe give a one second bonus for the athlete who is leading at the 3k,4k,5k,6k,7k,8k,9k marks.

Would this lead to many small sprints during the overall race?

The actual winner of the race might not be the actual winner because he/she sat in the pack and waited to kick while others did all the work during the race. The winning time might only be one second ahead of the 2nd place finisher, but the 2nd place finisher actually lead at the 4k, 5k, and 6k marks earning 3 bonus seconds thus winning the race by 2 seconds.

I'm not saying to do this for earning spots on Olympic or World Champs teams, but couldn't this concept possibly work in road racing or distance races on the track?

Work with me on this.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Hey, we could even do this in the field events. How about after each round, the leader wears this cute yellow t-shirt?

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

In a somewhat similar vein... Didn't some indoor meets several decades ago have a special event called the "Devil-Take-the-Hindmost 2-mile" or something??

They started the field on the 20-lap race (176-yd track) and after five laps, on each of the following laps the *LAST PLACE* guy had to drop out of the race.

This resulted in a mad sprint near the end of each lap ...to remain in the race. Fans stayed in their seats for this one. (They'd go get beer & hotdogs during the real 2-mile event)

[MJD]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

There used to be a 10km road race in Hamilton Ontario named after Paavo Nurmi. The top 10 or so finishers in that morning race got to come back in the evening for the predecessor to the Spectator Indoor Games and take part in the Devil Take The Hindmost one mile race on a track that was 11 laps to the mile. I got yanked stage left in 1983 after 3 laps.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

And to beat people by a significant margin you have to break them during the race, not just outkick them in the homestretch. Otherwise they get the same finish time as you.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Not quite the same but Race Directors have done something similar in road races (the marathon in particular) in the past. It might look as follows:

(for example purposes only)

T&F Message Board Marathon

1 place $75,000
2 place $50,000
3 place $35,000

Bonuses:

Leader at halfway: $5,000
Leader at 20 miles: $10,000

Although the race directors would often only offer this incentive system to a few core elite athletes to try and ensure a quick pace.

In this example the third place runner could equal the second place runner in prise money if he lead at halfway and at 20 miles.

A possible stipulation may be that you have to finish the race in the top 20 to qualify for the bonus money. (to keep someone from running a 1/2 marathon then quiting).

To keep mini sprints from happening the money would be kept small in comparison with the overall prise money. So if you think you are a top 5 place runner go won't jepordise it by sprinting at 13 miles. Not financially worth it but you may be willing to keep the pace fast in hopes that you can grab a bonus along the way.

Another way to handle the sprint problem would be put a bonus for several positions or for everyone under a certain time. Example: Everyone under 1:05:00 at the half marathon point who goes on to place in the top 20 gets an extra $1,000.

The thing is to avoid hiring a rabbit who everyone knows has no intention of finishing the race but to rather incent the competitive athletes toward a quick pace.

[luv2run]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Bolder Boulder does this. They have "primes" (pronounced "preem). The runners must finish in the top X to get the money (I cannot remember how far down the runner can finish to get the money).

It could be interesting.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

That "Devil Take the Hindmost" was very exciting to watch, and fun to run. This is the type of creative racing that would capture the attention of the general public. The scramble not to be last each lap was great.

"Exhibition" races like this would also be great on t.v. Masback should really consider encouraging the implementation of some of these "fun" spectator (non track enthusiast) friendly types of events in major televised meets in the states.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Primes would be great on the track. You could almost do away with rabbits. For a 10K after the first 2k start introducing primes every 1k or 800m.

In order to collect the prime money the athlete would have to finish in the top 5. Of cours, the most money would be given to the winner. But, if the winner also won several primes the pot would be substancially more lucrative.

It sure would make the 10k a lot of run to watch. I bet even those non distance running people, who are usually very board watching the 10 would stay in their seat. It would also give incentive to those winnning the primes to stay in the money for the end of the race. It would be a bunch of mini races. It would be brutal to run and take special training (surging) to do well.

Are track promoters listening?

[dl]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

The DN Galan (Stockholm GP) had 2500 euro primes in the 5K last year, with 4, 3, 2 and 1 lap remaning.

An interesting race developed, with Sammy Kipketer taking two of the primes and finishing 2nd, taking home 12,500 in prize money, with Abderrahim Goumri not taking any primes, but winning and collecting 10,000 in prize money. So in Kipketer's eyes, he "won."

Of course, Goumri got a shoe bonus for winning so he probably ended up with more than Kipketer.

I think the primes were a good idea, since the race lacked any "big" stars and virtually no Europeans.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Would this work for shorter races... say 1500?

You could give a bonus to the leader at 800 and 1200 if they finished in the top 5. Or you could give a bonus to anyone who went through 800 under 1:55 and 1200 under 2:52 and finished in the top 5.

I think the fans would appreciate this much more than watching a rabbit that they know is going to drop out. It makes the race more competitive throughout not just at the end as in most rabbited races.

You could use it all the way down to the 800 if you wanted to. Anyone going through in under 51 and finishing in the top 5 (or whatever) gets an extra amount in his/her check.

I'd love to have this the longer races too of course. It gives you the little extra motivation that you need to lay it out the on the line.

One side effect is that if all races had this (except Olympics/WC) than people wouldn't race as much becuase you almost always have a fast paced race. Not many "easy" or slow tactical races.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

>Would this work for shorter races... say
>1500?

You could give a bonus to the leader at
>800 and 1200 if they finished in the top 5. Or
>you could give a bonus to anyone who went through
>800 under 1:55 and 1200 under 2:52 and finished
>in the top 5.

I think the fans would
>appreciate this much more than watching a rabbit
>that they know is going to drop out. It makes
>the race more competitive throughout not just at
>the end as in most rabbited races.

You could
>use it all the way down to the 800 if you wanted
>to. Anyone going through in under 51 and
>finishing in the top 5 (or whatever) gets an
>extra amount in his/her check.

I'd love to
>have this the longer races too of course. It
>gives you the little extra motivation that you
>need to lay it out the on the line.

One side
>effect is that if all races had this (except
>Olympics/WC) than people wouldn't race as much
>becuase you almost always have a fast paced race.
>Not many "easy" or slow tactical races.

I think the preme concept could work for races as short at 1500 m. The 800 is too "all out" to have premes. Of course, the longer the race the more exciting and useful the premes become.

As far as split-time incentives go - a good idea as well as long as those who won the incentive had to finish. Then again what would the difference be from that of having a rabbit who would have to finish? I think rabbits should be given an incentive to make the splits and then an additional incentive - the higher in the final standing they place the more money they would recieve.

It would keep everyone on their toes - and give more rewards to the pacer. You would probably end up having more talented rabbits.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

Hell I'm in - I am offering a $15 prime to the leader at 800m of the Men's 1500m at USATF in 2004 ASSUMING his time is better than the women's split.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

>Hell I'm in - I am offering a $15 prime to the
>leader at 800m of the Men's 1500m at USATF in
>2004 ASSUMING his time is better than the women's
>split.

Yeah, but would the winning time have to be faster than that of the women's? They might slow down to regroup after collecting the prime then wait until the final 100 to race again. This would again play into Lunn's hands he could win the race and $15.

[Guest]

Re: Tour de France Rules in 10K ?

I'll match the $15 but I want to add the stipulation that if Lunn wins it he must race Regina Jacobs in a double or nothing race.