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  • #16
    Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

    This would help- http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/eT ... ration.jsp

    If you're a subscriber give it a shot. You can always opt out of eTN if you don't like it or you're getting too much T&F :-)

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

      I would ahve liked to see more than two pages on regionals. T&FN campaigned for years to get the meets put into place and then virtually ignored them.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

        Dear Mr. Francis,

        $40 is too much? Who do you think pays for this web site that you frequent? Who pays the salary of the B. Halls who keep it up and running? Instead of telling the T&F owners to move out of California, why don't you get off you ass and pony up like the rest of us do. $40 a year ain't cheap, but T&F News provides the "glue" which allows fans to stay connected with the sport (and through the internet with each other). If T&F News folded up shop you would likely be one of the first to complain about lack of coverage.

        I pay a lot more than $40 a year on crap I can't even recall. $40 a year for insightful reporting (and to support the magazine) is money well spent. Where I come from you pay for what you want - you don't mooch of others (i.e. subscribers) because your cheap. That's not to say everyone who visits the T&F web site has to be a subscriber - I just take offense when someone (a non-subscriber) bitches about the cost (which they are not paying) while enjoying the benefits.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

          We are so used to African domination in distance events that a young star from that region of the world is not really news.

          What is interesting however is that these young African stars don't fall from grace like Webb and Hall. They just continue to get better.

          Lets be honest Steve Holman was the last competitive US 1500/mile runner. Jason Pyrah also showed he could compete by making the finals in the last Olympics.

          With the exception of Krummenacker there is nothing really happening among US 1500 meters runners.
          Maybe Lunn can change things today.

          I miss the "good old days" of US miling when we had competitive runners like Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, Tim Hacker, Sidney Maree, Chuck Argon(?), and Jeff Atkinson. They were followed by two more fast milers Joe Falcon and Steve Holman.
          All these guys had one thing in common in that they could run times ranging from 3:47 to 3:52. That speed range would still put them in direct contact with the best African runners today.

          After mentioning these names lets put the rest the idea that there is any kind of mile renaissance going on in the US. Webb runs a fast High School school mile and the gullible press is talking about a distance renaissance in the States.

          Fast Fact:

          Did you know Joe Falcon was the last American to break 3:50 for the mile. It happened at the Dream Mile in 1991 where he beat Peter Elliot of Great Britain. This race I believe was the last time either an American or Englishman broke 3:50 for a mile. Wow, it has been 12 years!! Webb was only 8 when this race took place.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

            African stars just get better? Then why do we have to learn a whole new set of names every two years? The kips, koechs, ronos, gats, etc. confuse me mightily. They have a seemingly inexhaustable supply of talent, but it is most certainly NOT the same every year. Their monstrous mileages do take their toll and people disappear very often. Even the mighty Geb is human and has problems. What does that tell you? Everybody has ups and downs. AW had up, then a down, I see an up in his future.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

              >Any idea why circulation numbers have dropped so
              >much? >>

              1. The biggest reason is that the 1979 number didn't reflect reality. That was about the peak of the running boom, when Runner's World was really taking off, and a lot of "everyday runners" were exploring (and buying) everything in the running world. But as track-meet promoters quickly learned, the great masses of runners have virtually zero interest in track meets. Same for paying for a track (& FIELD) magazine. So that number was unrealistic.

              2. The Baby Boom had a greater chunk of people to whom we could sell.

              3. 1980 and 1984 Olympics were boycotted, souring a lot of people on the sport. We used to see a marked circulation rise in every Olympic year. Now we don't. The bloom is off that rose.

              4. Internet competition. It's not easy to come up with a product that people will pay for if they can get complete satisfaction for free.

              But we continue to fight.

              gh

              (E. Garry Hill/editor, T&FN)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                $40-fair-weather-track-fan...If you really want to subscribe again to T&FN, try putting $4.00 into a piggy bank on the first day of the month. After one year, you can start getting T&FN just in time for Athens! Keep saving your pennies, keep reading the "best" T&F magazine around. It's not that much.

                Or...you could ask Santa Claus for a subscription.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                  >African stars just get better? Then why do we
                  >have to learn a whole new set of names every two
                  >years? The kips, koechs, ronos, gats, etc.
                  >confuse me mightily. They have a seemingly
                  >inexhaustable supply of talent, but it is most
                  >certainly NOT the same every year. Their
                  >monstrous mileages do take their toll and people
                  >disappear very often. Even the mighty Geb is
                  >human and has problems. What does that tell you?
                  >Everybody has ups and downs. AW had up, then a
                  >down, I see an up in his future.

                  T&F Nut-

                  The is off the topic thread but you make a great point. Many say the Kenyan training programs are so remarkable - that's not as much the case as 1.) so many are built to run 2.) so many are running. They are all like shooting stars - a few seasons and done replaced by another with fresh legs who will be good for another couple seasons. Its all about numbers. They have thousands with potential all trying to make it to the top.

                  We don't have as many "naturals" here in the states (small light frame built to run), and we don't have as many trying to run (many other sports to compete with). When we do get talent we should nurture the talent rather than trying to be like the Kenyan's and exploit the talent until the next one comes along (we don't always have a "next one".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                    El Supremo & Flash:

                    Let's see guys....yes, I did "bitch" (as you put it) about the increased price in TFN over the years; however, AT LEAST I HAD THE BALLS TO ATTACH MY NAME TO MY COMPLAINT!!! NOT LIKE YOU SPINELESS WIENIES!

                    As far as my so-called "cheapness", I DIDN'T ask for this forum to be put up for my use! If it weren't here, I wouldn't miss it at ALL! And I sure as hell wouldn't be taking your CRAP abuse about something I DIDN'T ask you input for ANYWAY!

                    So, fellas..... PISS OFF!

                    Kurt Francis

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                      Lighten up, Francis.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                        >After subscribing to TFN for 16 years
                        >(1980-1996), TFN got too danged expensive as I
                        >saw it go from $13.50/year to over $40/year.
                        >Sorry, with the advent of the internet and the
                        >already many hundreds of meets I've been to in
                        >my lifetime, I really don't need most of the
                        >fluff that TFN adds in the way of words to a
                        >story. I can already read most of the story on
                        >the 'net anyway.

                        I'd consider re-subscribing
                        >if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range.
                        >But at today's price, FORGET IT!

                        Suggestion
                        >n for the TFN crew...MOVE OUT OF THAT DAMNED
                        >OVER-TAXED SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF KALIFORNIA. Maybe
                        >then your production costs will lower
                        >considerably and you'll be able to re-gain some
                        >lost subscribers like me.

                        Kurt

                        I agree with Kurt, & I'm a T&FN subscriber. Compared to most magazines, even trade ones, T&FN's subscription price IS too high. Especially with the advent of quick meet results & the Internet, you don't really get enough bang for one's $40 bucks. Most of the news stories are old news by the time we receive the issue, & there could be more investigative pieces if you ask me.

                        Along with USA's declining interest in track, I'm sure price has played a role in why subscription has been halved over the years. I know that part of it is due to so few advertisers (although I think there are some potential advertisers, such as organic producers, that T&FN may wish to explore if it hasn't already done so). However, the price must come down to bring subscribership back to its old level. The only reason why I currently subscribe is to help out the track & field community. However, I might reconsider once my subscription runs out, & find other ways of support.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                          'balls'
                          'wienies'
                          'crap'
                          'piss off'

                          Kurt, you really like to flaunt your big vocabulary, don't you?

                          Signed,
                          anonymous (wow, I bet that makes you even madder!)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                            yes kurt, it sounds like you have "issues." I would suggest professional help from a qualified therapist in dealing with your anger control problem.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                              >After subscribing to TFN for 16 years
                              >(1980-1996), TFN got too danged expensive as I
                              >saw it go from $13.50/year to over $40/year.
                              >Sorry, with the advent of the internet and the
                              >already many hundreds of meets I've been to in
                              >my lifetime, I really don't need most of the
                              >fluff that TFN adds in the way of words to a
                              >story. I can already read most of the story on
                              >the 'net anyway.

                              I'd consider re-subscribing
                              >if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range.
                              >But at today's price, FORGET IT!>>

                              Mr. Francis,
                              Actually, if you quit subscribing in 1996 you never paid more than $34.95 (being a huge MJ fan, I just happen to have his mug from the December 1996 edition on my desk), but I don't mean to pick nits. The point is that TFN has nearly ALWAYS been expensive. (I started in the early 1970's.)

                              But think about the progress the magazine has made. When you started in 1980 I don't think there was any color except for the front page. When you stopped in 1996 most of the photography, based on the issue I'm holding, was still black and white. Now the whole thing is all-color. In my life as a salesman I've had the occasion to get flyers printed, in both color and b&w; the difference in cost is mind-boggling. I have to guess that the current price of 40-whatever has slashed the magazine's profit margin notably over what it was at $34.95.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

                                Not to pry, but I have often wondered whether the magazine really makes any money at all. You go to meets all over the world (not ALL the time, but often enough), you have to pay high rent in the Peninsula, you have to pay (slave) wages, you have big production costs, etc. I suspect you do it just for the press credentials at the big meets.

                                Comment

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