vertical jumps

[NetCoach]

Re: vertical jumps

Throwing shot not an advantage? Guess you've never "thrown" a shot.

Touching a hurdle? Not a rule that I know of. Probably mean intentionally knocking down a hurdle. That rule is there for safety of all I presume.

The two footed rule could only be because of gymnastic type attempts straight on.

Personally though, I feel tafnut has made his point in this forum. He's convinced me. I'm going out tomorrow and recruiting all those cute little 12 year old gymnasts. When I teach them how to take off one footed, I'll have a whole mess of 6' girl High Jumpers. Right?

[tafnut]

Re: vertical jumps

yeah, I love the hurdle rule that you canot INTENTIONALLY knock over the hurdle. Who cares? That certainly won't help you get over them FASTER!. I agree. If it's the high jump, and you want to do a round-off back hand-spring over the bar, be my guest. They got rid of the stupid TJ rule that you couldn't drag a foot between stages, like THAT was going to help you.

edit>> recruiting all those cute little 12 year old gymnasts. When I teach them how to take off one footed, I'll have a whole mess of 6' girl High Jumpers. Right?<<

you're assuming (falsely) that they can jump 5'6" two-footed which they CAN'T.

[skyin' brian]

Re: vertical jumps

ok, the goal of high jump is to convert horizontal energy into vertical energy. simple.
well, a gymnast, or actually tumbler in this case can generate plenty of energy in running a few(usually just 3) strides, performing a "round-off", a "flip-flop"(back-hand-spring) or two, followed by a super high flying skill. on a spring floor, that can be as difficult as a triple back flip. certainly there is someone out there that could tumble pretty well on a mondo surface. heck, i can do a full twisting laid out back flip on wrestling mats that provide no spring, and i was an average gymnast at best. the power generated by a gymnast tumbling is great compared to that of a high jumper. a two foot takeoff would kill the speed of a high jumpers approach, but with someone coming out of a super fast flip-flop, it is fast and allows to "jump" with both legs.
of course tumbling over bars would be a much more dangerous technique, but it would be interesting to see how high an athlete could go

[marknhj]

Re: vertical jumps

tafnut, wtf are you talking about? A vertical jump is as gh described all over the world. My best was 39".

[slowcoach]

Re: vertical jumps

>tafnut, wtf are you talking about? A vertical jump is as gh described all over
>the world. My best was 39".


Pretty good, Mark. I tested myself today, and did 35.

Not bad for a 44 year old.

(OK it was cm, let's not get technical)

[tafnut]

Re: vertical jumps

>>tafnut, wtf are you talking about? A vertical jump is as gh described all over >the world. My best was 39".<<

I repeat (verbatim from my post above, which aparently you neglected to read):

"I do realize what a 'vertical' is, but just like the infamous Football 40, I find it worthless to track (which is, I believe, the context that we're discussing it in. No one does a standing 2-footed jump, so what what tafnut is TRYING to say is that the running 1-foot takeoff vertical is a much more valuable tool for assessing jumping ability. As EVERYONE has been pointing out, there seeems to be little correlation between the BBall vert and what I'm talking about."

Sheeesh!

[cullman]

Re: vertical jumps

Calling Dave Johnson...hey Dave, you're the man who knows this stuff. Wasn't there a US gymnast or tumbler in the late 50s or early 60s who utilized a two foot take-off to clear a bar set at or higher than the world record at the time?

I've read it a few times as it was sometimes used as a sidebar in old school T and F coaching manuals.

cman

[hjumper33]

Re: vertical jumps

I think ive heard the same kind of story. A japanese gymnast i believe.

[Pego]

Re: vertical jumps

I would believe, it's just a story that got better and better.

[det]

Re: vertical jumps

Maybe Wilt actually cleared 7', but did it with a two footed dive.

As a measly 2 meter high jumping decathlete at 6' tall, and with decent gymnastic ability, I actually goofed around with the straight on dive/flip (no round offs on approach) and got close to 6'8 once in practice. I also chipped a tooth on the crossbar when the face got too close. I was one of the guys who loved the long jump flip and lost my PR retroactively when it was banned. You needed real soft sand, raked very level, and a strong butt for that technique.

I still think two legs, with the right technique, could produce interesting and possibly great results for women (but not necessarily for men).

Track could become vert interesting if techniques were not so restrictive (I'll follow up on historical).

[Pego]

Re: vertical jumps

<I still think two legs, with the right technique, could produce interesting and possibly great results for women (but not necessarily for men).>

Could you elaborate, why there would be a gender difference?

[det]

Re: vertical jumps

Pego - Without going into a bunch of physics-babble about center of gravity, vectors, etc. I will simply state: Elite men jump from 1-2 feet over their heads. Elite women jump from inches to 1 foot over their heads. Men jump very differently than women.

I agree with tafnut that a one footed take-off is the best way to get optimum height, but I'll qualify that and ad "for men."

Most women cannot get high off the ground with a one footed jump; look at all the tall college basketball players, yet very few can dunk. The only women who've been good one footers were in the Eastern Block in the 80's.

The exception to this jump to height ratio seems to be in elite women's gymnastics. There a bunch of 4'8-5'0 athletes achieve incredible heights on tumbling runs with two foot take-offs. (no the floors have no springs and you get less, not more, height off a padded floor...mondo is best for jumping because it is hard...that's another discussion).

Since we'll never know about the potential of a two footed jump (that would take a rule change) we can only speculate (like we did with the vault). Somewhere out there is a national class gymnast, an excellent tumbler, who "outgrew" her sport and stands 5'10 to 6.' I don't think it would take much to get her over 2 meters.

[Pego]

Re: vertical jumps

I do understand what you are saying, just don't understand why a slightly different physique (after all, most female high jumpers are narrow hipped, slim, tall individuals)would make a two-footed take-off superior to the one-footed one. Both genders have gone through the scissors-Western roll(Horine)-straddle-flop evolution (Balas being a notable exception). Those tumbling pixies certainly knock the wind out of me, but I am not convinced that your hypothetical girl that "outgrew" her sport would be more effective two-footed than one.

[STL_Runner]

Re: vertical jumps

"I do realize what a 'vertical' is,
>but just like the infamous Football 40, I find it worthless to track

I agree with this. They say the vertical jump tests your explosiveness. Well, how can that be when my vertical jump is 32" and I always get murdered out of the blocks?

[dj]

Re: vertical jumps

>Calling Dave Johnson...hey Dave, you're the man who knows this stuff. Wasn't
>there a US gymnast or tumbler in the late 50s or early 60s who utilized a two
>foot take-off to clear a bar set at or higher than the world record at the
>time?

I don't remember the tumbling stories, but I do remember seeing a photo of an African high jumping around 8 feet in the mid-'50s. But the jumping take off was a 10-12 inch mound, and the leverage gained amplified that 10-12 inch difference.