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El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?


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  • #16
    Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

    I agree with everything in Alan Shank's posting on Aug. 16, but I also hope that he recalls that my observation is that the four runners are alike in their lack of an Olympic gold medal -- nothing else.

    I disagree with Cyril's posting on Aug 16 - 17 in one respect -- Michael Johnson's changing his training. In 1988 - 1994 Johnson ran the 100 meters every year except 1992. His injury running the 150 against Donovan Bailey in 1993 limited his 100s that year, but he ran seven 100s in 1994 which was the year before his 400 - 200 doubles at the World Championships and at the Olympic Games in 1995 and 1996. Did he need to run those 100s? I don't know, but hindsight tells us that it sure didn't hurt him.


    • #17
      Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

      You can bet El G. does plenty of speed work. Just because he doesn't run the 8 in competition doesn't mean that he doesn't train to finish strong. He simply trains to finish strong from further out. Maybe Krum should look at how El. G. trains to try to figure out how to get stronger so he can run 3:26. Or maybe Coe should have run longer intervals so he could have started his kick from 500 out like El G. does. Or maybe Coe should have run less speed so that his career may have lasted as long as El G.s is going to. Maybe Marion Jones should run some 8s to make her stonger at the end of the 4. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

      The arguement is ridiculous. You can't fault someone as accomplished as El G. We will most likely soon see him dominiate again even though the entire field is keying on him and knows what to expect. Who cares if team tactics are used? The Ethiopians used them in the 10 and nobody faulted them.


      • #18
        Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

        "His courage (EL.G) contrasts with the cowardice of Radc liffe. Although her running style resembles that of Emil Zatopek her brain won't allow her to race at less than 100% conditioning. In 1950 Zatopek left a sick bed to win the 10,000 and 5000 meters at the European Championships, but Radcliffe is proably afraid to risk losing another big payday at a Fall Marathon if she were outkicked by the Ethiopians at 10,000 meters again. "

        Sorry, but that is a ridiculous comment. Would you call Radcliffe a coward to her face if you ran into her on the street? If not - why here? Do you really think a race director would pull/reduce the appearance fee of histories fastest marathoner (by far) because she loses by 2 seconds in a kick? No way. Think Geb lost any potential appearance $$ after finishing 2nd in 26:50?

        If anything Radcliffe would have forced the pace under 30:00 knowing her kick is not as hot. That could have raised her fees - not lowered them.


        • #19
          Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

          hi'll see.


          • #20
            Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?


            After today's final do you still think The Great One should change his training and throw some more 8s in the preseason mix?

            He took command early and rammed the distance down the throat of everyone else in the race. He showed why he is the best miler there ever was by running a balls out mile - no peak-a-boo wait and kick crap.

            Do things differently - HELL NO!


            • #21
              Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

              Your points are well taken. El G looked strong on the homestretch of the 1500, but not quite as strong in the 5000.

              I hope that he wins the 1500 in Athens, but we won't know for one year. My observation is still accurate -- no Olympic gold medal yet. My suggestion of 800 - 1000 is less solid. We shall see.

              el supremo:
              I have been critical of t&f personalities in person and in published writings. I assume that someone at T&FN can provide you with my addresses, so I might give documentation to you.

              I may be wrong about Radcliffe's motivation. Why do you think that she didn't run?

              Geb has gold medals from two Olympic Games, four World Outdoor Championships, three World Indoor Championships at 3000 meters and one World Indoor Championship at 1500 meters. She has none.

              He has the credibility as a great racer that she lacks, plus he rarely runs road races. He probably ran more miles on roads in 2002 than he had in the prervious 10 years.

              In addition, has reported that she is scheduled to run the Flora road 5000 meters in London on Sept. 14. As Bill Cosby said about the child who faked illness to avoid school, but who then wanted to play at 3:00 pm -- "its a miracle!"

              Do you think that its a miracle, cowardice, greed or something else?


              • #22
                Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                >I may be wrong about
                >Radcliffe's motivation. Why do you think that
                >she didn't run?

                >Geb has gold
                >medals from two Olympic Games, four World Outdoor
                >Championships, three World Indoor Championships
                >at 3000 meters and one World Indoor Championship
                >at 1500 meters. She has none.

                >He has the
                >credibility as a great racer that she lacks, plus
                >he rarely runs road races. He probably ran more
                >miles on roads in 2002 than he had in the
                >prervious 10 years.

                >In addition, has
                >reported that she is scheduled to run the Flora
                >road 5000 meters in London on Sept. 14. As Bill
                >Cosby said about the child who faked illness to
                >avoid school, but who then wanted to play at 3:00
                >pm -- "its a miracle!"

                >Do you think that
                >its a miracle, cowardice, greed or something

                I was very sorry that Radcliffe didnt' run in Paris. She won a 10K road in 30:51 shortly thereafter. After watching the Ethiopians handle Sun's pace and Adere run away at the end in 30:04, I don't think Paula would have won a gold medal in Paris.

                I am not taking any position as to whether Radcliffe should have competed, knowing she wasn't at her best, or not. I just missed seeing her run. If she had been there at full strength, we probably would have seen a sub-30, but I think Paula is going to have a very hard time winning a WC or Oly gold on the track. The marathon, yes.

                Alan Shank


                • #23
                  Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                  The rest of the guys are getting closer. That's with Lagat out of the picture. If El G gets stuck in a homestretch battle in Athens - provided he makes the final, anything can happen - he may win, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. He'll be another year older, and the younger guys are moving into their prime years.


                  • #24
                    Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                    radcliffe will not win a gold medal in the olympics, there are better runners in the 5 and 10k, and i doubt she will run the marathon in the olympics, if she even runs the marathon in athens, i think that would not allow her time to recover for a high paying and fast fall marathon, ethiopian, kenyan, japanese and chinese girls will be running under 2.15 in 3 years, well maybe 5 for the chinese.


                    • #25
                      Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                      I really appreciate replies to my original posting of July 13, 2003, but I fear that I still may be accurate in my pessimistic predictions.

                      The OG schedule is perfect for El G, so if he continues to eschew 800 - 1000 races, at least the 5000 is a fallback if he fails to win the 1500 AGAIN. "Cyril" wrote that "El G. does plenty of speed work," but more than 30 years ago, George Young said that the best speed work is a race.

                      I still maintain that El G should follow the Geb pattern and race at shorter distances indoors. If I were a betting man, I would give El G a 90% probability of winning a gold medal at Athens.

                      On the other hand, I would give Radcliffe a 10% chance of winniong a gold medal at Athens. Her half-marathon defeat of Adere by almost 1 1/2 minutes and the slowing of her pace between 10K and the marathon by only 8.35% proves to me that her best race is the marathon.

                      The only question is this: does she have the mental toughness to win at Athens? The Paris schedule for 10K - 5K - Marathon is similar to Zatopek's in 1952, but she didn't run there. Athens is 5k heats - Marathon - 5K final - 10K final, so it is Marathon or nothing


                      • #26
                        Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                        I think a number of you are doing Paula a dis-service re her withdrawal from the Paris World Championships.

                        The facts are that she left until the last possible moment to make a decision, right up to the selection deadline of Monday 11th August.

                        However, when she returned to the UK, she did one of her strenuous sessions in an attempt to gauge her fitness, and decided that she wasn't ready to run.

                        Whilst the rest of the world was in Paris, Paula had two good weeks of training. Her runs on the road in September were good, but not that good, and she was visibly very tired after the 5k run in London. She probably made the right decision not to run.

                        As of right now, Paula has not made a decision as to which event to do in Athens. I think the double is still in her mind.

                        With Kind Regards
                        Matthew Fraser Moat


                        • #27
                          Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?


                          What El G. does is train to race - not race to train. He has grown tremendously over the past few years. He is stronger than he has ever been as a result of training his body to be able to run 1500 (or 1600) meters flat out faster than anyone else in the world.

                          He races relatively sparingly - but when he races he knows exactly how he is going to run. He executes his races without flaws and most of the time it works to a t.

                          If he was to race more - run some 8s. He would likely lose more. This is not what he wants to do from a psychological perspective or a marketing perspective. And, why do it?

                          He has the 1500 figured out better than anyone who has ever run the race, it now looks like he is starting to get a handle on the 5 as well - why screw with what is working?


                          • #28
                            Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                            Paula on her chances [and a Clean Games]: from the BBC athletics page:

                            Radcliffe welcomes drugs scandal

                            Radcliffe is hopeful that next year's Olympics will be free of drugs
                            Paula Radcliffe believes the THG drugs scandal will go a long way to cleaning up athletics by exposing cheats and ridding the sport of drugs.
                            The marathon world record holder is a leading figure in the fight against drugs and is determined to take the positives from the latest controversy.

                            "The scandal over THG may be the best thing that could have happened to athletics," she said.

                            "The cheats are being uncovered and they now have nowhere to hide."

                            Radcliffe told the Daily Telegraph newspaper: "Next year's Olympics may be missing some big names, but Athens could well be the cleanest Games for years, so ultimately there is a lot of reason for hope."

                            Drugs cheats have robbed people of championships places

                            Paula Radcliffe
                            The 28-year-old is also backing new initiatives to take a tough line on drugs cheats.

                            USA Track & Field, who have seen four American athletes test positive for THG, are proposing lifetime bans for first steroid offences.

                            While UK Sport has set up a phone hotline for tip-offs about suspected use of illegal drugs by athletes and coaches.

                            "Anyone who is found guilty of using THG should be banned for life," said Radcliffe.

                            "By using it they have been cheating the system and have been guilty of deliberate fraud. They've robbed people of championship places and cheated on their fellow competitiors.

                            "I also wholeheartedly back the call for more people to become whistle-blowers.

                            "I would even like to see more private investigators put on the trail of anyone under suspicion."


                            • #29
                              Re: El G & Radcliffe = Ryun & Clarke?

                              to Matthew Fraser Moat

                              The facts are:
                              1. Paula defeated Adere by 1:27in a "no
                              pressure" race on 4Oct03.
                              2. Paula has 1 WC medal in 3 tries and 0 OG
                              medals in 2 tries.
                              3. The Marathon is at 1800 on 22Aug and the
                              10K is on 27Aug around 2100. What "double
                              is still in her mind?" I suspect that any
                              double will still be in her mind only--not
                              in reality--when Athens is over.

                              to Cyril

                              You may be accurate about El G's preparation. He may establish a new paradigm for milers, but I'm a "Doubting Thomas" who will only be convinced by an OG gold medal for him.

                              to Friar:

                              I assume that Paula is as pure as the newly driven snow. I ask one question? With her dominance on the clock why can't she dominateon the track or on the road in the WC and OG?