KD starts fast with1:45.24

[JRinaldi]

Nice start from KD. I'm thinking a 1:43 is there for the taking come Europe or even at Pre (if TJ has one added to the meet)


Men 800 Meter Run

1 Khadevis Robinson Nike 1:45.24
2 Brandon Shaw Vanguard 1:50.61 (just to show how much he won by)


*As per Azusa link on home page

[STL_Runner]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

I'd say his PR of 1:44.41 is in serious jeopardy of going down this season. Mid- to high-1:43 would be great. Has anyone else noticed that our best US 800m guys have a sprinting background?

[trackhead]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

1.42.60 Johnny Gray USA 600619 2 Koblenz 850828
1.43.20 Mark Everett USA 680902 1 Linz 970709
1.43.35 David Mack USA 610530 3 Koblenz 850828
1.43.38 Richard Kenah USA 700804 3r1 Zürich 970813
1.43.5hy-.6 Rick Wohlhuter USA 481223 1 Eugene, Or 740608
1.43.62 Earl Jones USA 640717 2r1 Zürich 860813
1.43.92 John Marshall USA 631105 3 Los Angeles 840619
1.43.92 James Robinson USA 540827 4 Los Angeles 840619
1.43.97 Jose Antonio Parrilla USA 720331 3 New Orleans, La 920624
1.44.00 George Kersh USA 680703 4 New Orleans, La 920624

vs

1:41.11 Wilson Kipketer DEN 12 12 1972 1 Köln 24 08 1997
1:41.73 Sebastian Coe GBR 29 09 1956 1 Firenze 10 06 1981
1:41.77 Joaquim Cruz BRA 12 03 1963 1 Köln 26 08 1984
1:42.28 Sammy Koskei KEN 14 05 1961 2 Köln 26 08 1984
1:42.34 Wilfred Bungei KEN 24 07 1980 2 Rieti 08 09 2002
1:42.47 Yuriy Borzakovskiy RUS 12 04 1981 1 Bruxelles 24 08 2001
1:42.55 André Bucher SUI 19 10 1976 1r1 Zürich 17 08 2001
1:42.58 Vebjørn Rodal NOR 16 09 1972 1 Atlanta 31 07 1996
1:42.60 Johnny Gray USA 19 06 1960 2r1 Koblenz 28 08 1985
1:42.62 Patrick Ndururi KEN 12 01 1969 2r1 Zürich 13 08 1997

here is some break down at the world level:

Athlete 800m Best (all-time rank) 1500m/mile Best (all-time rank) Accolades
Wilson Kipketer (DAN) 1:41.11 (WR) 3:42.80 (Not ranked) /3:59.7 (764) gold 1995/1997/1999 World 800m, silver 2000 OG, 2003 WIC 800m, 2004 OG bronze
Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1:41.73 (2) 3:29.77 (14)/3:47.33 (9) 1980/84 Olympic 800m silver, 1500m gold; 1986 European 800m gold
Joaquim Cruz (BRA) 1:41.77 (3) 3:34.6 (148)/3:53.00 (113) 1984 Olympic 800m gold, 1988 Olympic 800m silver
Sammy Koskei (KEN) 1:42.28 (4) 3:38.50 (603)
Vebjørn Rodal (NOR) 1:42.58 (5) 3:37.57 (421) 1996 Olympic 800m gold
André Bucher (SUI) 1:42.55 (7) 3:38.44 (589) 2001 World 800m gold*
Hezekiél Sepeng (RSA) 1:42.69 (11) 3:38.24 (541) 800m silver 1994/98 CWG, 96 Olympic Games, 1999 World Championships
Japheth Kimutai (KEN) 1:42.69 (12) 3:34.14 (125) 1998 Commonwealth 800m gold
Steve Cram (GBR) 1:42.88 (16) 3:29.67 (12)/3:46.32 (4) 1983 1500m gold, 1982/1986 Commonwealth & European 1500m gold, 800m bronze
Mbulaeni Mulaudzi (RSA) 1:42.89 (17) 3:39.70 (Not ranked) 800m gold 2002 CWG, 2004 World Indoors, 2004 OG, bronze 2003 World Championships
William Yiampoy (KEN) 1:43.00 (19) 3:34.12 (122) 4th 2001 World Championships 800m
Peter Elliot (GBR) 1:42.97 (18) 3:32.69 (58) Gold 1990 CWG 1500m, silver 1987 WC, 1988 Olympic 800m
José Luiz Barbosa (BRA) 1:43.08 (23) 3:37.04 (360) 800m bronze/silver 1987/1991 World Championships
Benson Koech (KEN) 1:43.17 (29) 3:32.09 (62) 1992 World Junior 800m gold
Mehdi Baala (FRA) 1:43.15 (27) 3:28.98 (6) 1500m gold 2002 European Champs., silver 2003 World Champs., bronze 2002 World Cup
William Tanui (KEN) 1:43.30 (31) 3:30.58 (18) 1992 Olympic 800m gold
Nixon Kiprotich (KEN) 1:43.31 (32) 3:38.76 (665) Silver 1990 CWG, 1992 Olympic 800m
William Chirchir (KEN) 1:43.33 (33) 3:29.29 (8) 2002 Commonwealth 1500m silver
Rich Kenah (USA) 1:43.38 (36) 3:37.63 (434) Silver 1997 World Indoor, Outdoor 800m
Rick Wohlhuter (USA) 1:43.5h (41) 3:53.3h (127) 1976 Olympic 800m bronze
Rob Druppers (NED) 1:43.56 (45) 3:35.07 (169) 1983 WC 800m silver
Mike Boit (KEN) 1:43.57 (46) 3:33.67 (89) 1972 Olympic 800m bronze, '78 World Cup silver
Abdi Bile (SOM) 1:43.60 (48) 23:30.55 (19) 1987 World Championship 1500m gold
Earl Jones (USA) 1:43.62 (49) 3:36.19 (266) 1984 Olympic 800m bronze
Laban Rotich (KEN) 1:43.65 (51) 3:29.91 (13)/3:47.65 (10) 1998 World Cup 1500m gold, 1999 World Indoor 1500m silver
*It should be noted that Bucher came from a very long distance background; Bucher competed at the World Junior Cross Country Championships in 1995 and has set PRs of 8:16.9 (3000m), 14:06.77 (5000m) and 30:40.5 (10000m).

Top 800m Runners with Sprinting Backgrounds: Athlete 800m Best (all-time rank) 400m Best (all-time rank) [b]Accolades
Yuriy Borzakovskiy** (RUS) 1:42.47 (6) 45.84 2004 Oly Gold
Patrick Ndururi (KEN) 1:42.62 (10) 45.71A (553) 7th in 1997 World 800m Champ.
Norberto Téllez (CUB) 1:42.85 (12) 45.27 (260) 1996 Olympic 800m bronze
Frederick Onyancha (KEN) 1:42.79 (13) 45.2hA 1996 Olympic 800m 4th
Billy Konchellah (KEN) 1:43.06 (18) 45.38A (321) 1987/1991 World 800m gold
Paul Ereng (KEN) 1:43.16 (21) 45.6 (490) 1988 800m Olympic gold
Mark Everett (USA) 1:43.20 (24) 44.59 (53) 9 time USA champion
Alberto Juanterrena (CUB) 1:43.44 (33) 44.26 (18) 1976 Olympic 400m/800m gold, '77 World Cup gold

** Borzakovskiy also hold a best of 3:43.24 for 1500m.

[JRinaldi]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

I think the key word there was BACKGROUND. There is no doubt that the last few Olympic Champs have come from a sprinting background (they may have moved or progressed towards the 1500, but they did all start with a sprinting background on average). Lets have a quick look atthe 400 vs 1500 back ground.

Yuriy Borzakovskiy 400
Nils Schumann 400
Vebjørn Rodal 400
William Tanui 1500
Paul Ereng 400
Joaquim Cruz 400
Steve Ovett 400
Alberto Juantorena 400
Dave Wottle 1500
Ralph Doubell 400
Peter Snell 1500 (really prob 400 as was a rugby player in high school)
Peter Snell 1500
Tom Courtney 400
Mal Whitfield 400
Mal Whitfield 400
John Woodruff 400

As pre previous post, most of the Top US 800 guys do have a sprint background. This does mean that that is the best way to approach the event; it's just a fact.

[Kevin]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

Great thread, so far. I agree with the premise that a background of speed is a good springboard for the 800.

Trackhead, what else can I say but WOW?!? If anyone has ever deserved his nick on here, it is you, my friend.

[Zat0pek]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

This is an offshoot of the question I asked a few weeks ago. Historically, up until the last 15 years or so, middle distance guys were pure middle distance, running 800/1500. That has now shifted to 1500/5000 types.

I disagree that a sprinting background is what is needed for 800 running. The 800 is and has been the most stagnant event of the last 20-25 years and I think the "myth" that one must first be a sprinter is why. Take a look at 800 WR holders and Oly medalists like Coe (WR's at 1500 and mile, double Oly gold at 1500), Ovett (Oly silver at 1500, 1:05 half-marathon), Aouita (800 Bronze, 5000 WR and OR, 27:25 10,000), Snell (800 and 1500 WR's and Oly golds), Ryun (880 WR, double mile WR and 1500 Silver) and you see plenty of outstanding 800 runners that had a lot of range UP distance, rather than DOWN distance. Not a single 800 guy on the scene today or in the last ten years for that matter, has distinguished themselves in any way at a distance above 800.

Not to be redundant, here's a link to the previous thread: http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... age=155189

[trackhead]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

Not a single 800 guy on
>the scene today or in the last ten years for that matter, has distinguished
>themselves in any way at a distance above 800.

not a guy, but Kelly Holmes is a shinning example of middle distance running.

[Helen S]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

Didn't Coe base his fitness on his 3000 meter time early in the season?
How many of today's "sprint" 800 guys run a long test to ensure they have adequate fitness/ endurance to finish their races strong?

[Zat0pek]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

>Didn't Coe base his fitness on his 3000 meter time early in the season?

What your thinking of is the story Jim Spivey told. He said that Coe told him once that as long as you can run sub-8:00 for 3,000 indoors, you've done your job in your basework.

How many of today's 800 runners could turn a 7:5x 3,000 indoors?

[Guest]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

<I'm thinking a 1:43 is there for the taking come Europe or even at Pre (if TJ has one added to the meet)>

Yes, we are having a men's 800 this year. For a listing of events, go to www.preclassic.com

[trackhead]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

I bet Bungei and Mutua can with a little training -- they run 90+ mpw in the off season befroe dropping it to 60s for in season racing.

[eldrick]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

>>Didn't Coe base his fitness on his 3000 meter time early in the season?
>

What your thinking of is the story Jim Spivey told. He said that Coe told
>him once that as long as you can run sub-8:00 for 3,000 indoors, you've done
>your job in your basework.

How many of today's 800 runners could turn a 7:5x
>3,000 indoors?<


i think 3k is too far a time trial for a "sprint" based 800 guy to test themselves ( albeit coe was an exception )

i'd reckon somewhere between 1500 - 2k would be more than enough

in fact, would any significant distance beyond 800 yield any significant info ?

if you only run 800 & no 1.5k, then wouldn't 1k TT be all that is required to see how strongly you can finish an 800 ( 1k is the next distance up from 800 for which he have times to judge by - you could 850 or 900m if you like - except we have no times for these ) ?

[doug0914]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

if webb had opened with a 145.24 for 800 meters in april and no one else broke 150 in the race. this thread would be well over 100 by now.

[eldrick]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

>if webb had opened with a 145.24 for 800 meters in april and no one else broke
150 in the race. this thread would be well over 100 by now<


what are webb's 800, 3k & 5k PBs ?

[Zat0pek]

Re: KD starts fast with1:45.24

>>what is webb's 800 PB ?

1:46-low.