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**Guest** · 07-18-2003, 01:43 AM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

Actually top ultramarathoners are truly quite impressive. They compare favorably to a Lance Armstrong - mega-endurance and speed to match. Having run a few 2:30ish marathons (and gimping for weeks afterwards) I can't imagine running 2-3 times the distance at the same pace. Actually, weren't Hage and Held decent marathoners/track guys in their previous life?

**Guest** · 07-18-2003, 02:23 AM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

ultraman...(sounds like a Marvel comic character!)

I'm not an ultra guy (although I once had a 30 mile day)...but have had ultra friends here in the Huntsville, AL area. We have an annual ultra (Mountain Mist) race and have been long friends with many ultra people from this area. Come visit us sometime.

**BillVol** · 07-18-2003, 03:42 AM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

My dad and I have a theory. When black guys take over white sports, white guys invent other sports, rather than try to work and compete with the black guys. Such is the case with ultra-running.

I'm not surprised at all that Americans are kings of ultramarathoning. In fact, I'd be shocked if we weren't. I mean, who else is going to run a hundred damn miles but Americans? I'm sure we also dominate trail-running, skate and snow boarding, triathlon, and of course all the X-Game events.

**Guest** · 07-18-2003, 12:13 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

Actually I don't think Americans "rule" ultrarunning (Greeks?) - que Ultrarunner.

**Powell** · 07-18-2003, 12:20 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

BillVol may have a point... The standards in the 100k are nowhere near those in normal Olympic events. This was shown very clearly when Tomoe Abe, running her first 100k race ever, and in less-than-perfect conditions, smashed the world best by almost half an hour. Abe was a world-class marathoner, but not really a superstar (her PB was around 2:26). If only more world-class marathoners gave this event a try, we would see how low the current ultramarathoning standards are.
BTW, Americans do NOT rule the 100k by any stretch of the imagination. Russia and Japan are the strongest countries and, apart from these two, most of the world's elite come from various European countries. We probably won't see East Africans dominate until there's more money involved...

**tafnut** · 07-18-2003, 12:32 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

I'm confused. Americans are the 'only' ones dumb enough to do all the mileage necessary to excel in this fringe sport that only appeals to athletic wannabes that can't beat the black people that dominate all the other sports. But . . . we don't do the mileage necessary to excel in the 'real' events like 10K and Marathon? Or is it just that white guys are so pathetically under-endowed (athletically speaking) that we could never excel at any real sport?

**Guest** · 07-18-2003, 12:40 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

Why T&F fans feel the need to downplay a sport related to theirs (ultrarunning) is beyond me. When we wonder why our fan base isn't greater maybe it's because our "snob factor" is so high (witness the monthly Runner's World bash posts). I spoke with Greg Lemond last fall in Chicago, and he went on and on about different cycling events, from Velodrome racing to the Tour De France to local 100 mile club rides - all with equal enthusiasim - because he said all bring people into the "cycling" family.

I disagree that the "standards" are low in the ultramarathon - but even if they are calling it a "made up" sport (no more so than the mile) is pointless.

Lemond's big picture views on his sport are not without merit.

gh · 07-18-2003, 01:56 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

>My dad and I have a theory. When black guys take
>over white sports, white guys invent other
>sports, rather than try to work and compete with
>the black guys. Such is the case with
>ultra-running.

I'm not surprised at all that
>Americans are kings of ultramarathoning. In
>fact, I'd be shocked if we weren't. I mean, who
>else is going to run a hundred damn miles but
>Americans? I'm sure we also dominate
>trail-running, skate and snow boarding,
>triathlon, and of course all the X-Game events.>

BillVol is dead wrong about the racial aspect, but spot-on concerning Americans and inventing events. However..... that's a GOOD thing! I credit the NCAA and USATF largely for making it possible for women to do things like the steeplechase, 5K, 10K, marathoning, 400H, PV, TJ and HT, which the rest of the world ignored. It's interesting to note that in almost all these disciplines, in the early years the World Rankings (and even WRs) are dominated by Americans, then the rest of the world catches up.

It's also this spirit of invention and moving ahead, in all fields, that has made the U.S. the world leader in so many things. It's something to be very proud of.

(And boy, has this thread now wandered far off-topic!)

**MJD** · 07-18-2003, 02:02 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

>Actually, weren't Hage and Held decent
>t marathoners/track guys in their previous life?

Yes but Hage, IMHO, should be more famous for his now defunct newsletter Running Ranting and Racing that he started with Scott Douglas and literally had me on the floor laughing on many occasions.

**Guest** · 07-21-2003, 08:27 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

>weren't Hage and Held decent marathoners/track guys in their previous life?

I can't speak for all of them, but I know Tilson is going to the US 2004 Olympic team trials for the marathon. He also holds the official 50k US record and the unofficial (but as official as anyone is going to get) 50k world record.

That's not even mentioned that the guy also rode his bike across the US three times and Asia twice. Seriously.

These ultra guys deserve more credit than they get.

**Guest** · 07-21-2003, 08:50 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

Trail running has a world wide appeal and following, and is quite big in Europe in many different forms- such as the Fell Running that takes place in the British Isles.

>My dad and I have a theory. When black guys take
>over white sports, white guys invent other
>sports, rather than try to work and compete with
>the black guys. Such is the case with
>ultra-running.

I'm not surprised at all that
>Americans are kings of ultramarathoning. In
>fact, I'd be shocked if we weren't. I mean, who
>else is going to run a hundred damn miles but
>Americans? I'm sure we also dominate
>trail-running, skate and snow boarding,
>triathlon, and of course all the X-Game events.
>

**Guest** · 07-21-2003, 09:03 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

>BillVol may have a point... The standards in the
>100k are nowhere near those in normal Olympic
>events.

Well, duh. Any athlete with professional aspirations does not do ultramarathoning. Doubtlessly, KK could be a champion ultra runner. But he'd have to get a day job, and he doesn't want one. Ultra-runners are true amateurs, and remaining amateur requires fanancial stability; it's not surprising, then, that Americans dominate ultra running.

**Guest** · 07-21-2003, 09:46 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

Americans do not dominate Ultarunning !!!!!

Of the top ten ranked male Ultrarunners in the world last year. None were Americans. No American men holds Ultramarthon world records (at commonly run distances).

On the womens side, we are very competitive but do not dominate.

To throw a stone on Mr. Vol's statement about racial types (how this even came up is beyond me). But in South Africa there are many Ultras (some with serious prize money) and they are dominated by African runners, many of whom are world class marathoners as well. They specialize in the shorter ultras (50k to 50 mile) and generally have a good deal of the best times in the world each year at these distances. The mid ultras (100k to 100 mile) are not really dominated by any one country or continent, which why the 100k World Championships are so interesting each year. The longer Ultras which include the 100+ milers or 24, 48 hours and multiple day runs are dominated by one man and he is from Greece although the second tier behind him have many country's represented (including the US).

If you want to say we invented the Ultra then fine, its not true but fine go ahead and say it.

I believe it started long long before the ole USA was even around. An for what its worth good old Elijah probably still holds the 100k world record (although verification is still pending - LOL) when he out ran the Kings chariots all those years ago.

**Guest** · 07-21-2003, 10:12 PM

Re: USA Names 100k WC Team

I agree that KK would be good Ultrarunner at the shorter Ultras (50k to 50 mile) but be careful. Not all world class marathoners make good ultra-runners. Just like all 5k guys don't make good marathoners. Or all milers make good 5k or 10k guys.

Once you get to the mod range Ultras at 100k to 100 miles it takes a different type of runner. You are out there 6 to 24 hours and that is a different type of endurance and a different mentality.

Kargdon ran a 50 miler once and said it was the hardest thing he ever did and you could not pay him enough to do it again.

Just like Lance Armstrong doesn't win all one day time trials or "dome" races, KK and other top distance guys would not necessarily do that well over 100k or 100 miles.

50k. Absolutely, its just 5 miles over the marathon. But somewhere between there and 50 miles you get into territory thats very foriegn.

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