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**Guest** · 07-22-2003, 06:50 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

>>Nolle Graham
>of LeMans TC and Kirt Thompson of the Invaders
>claimed Top Female & Male Performer honors, with
>Graham running 11.21 in the 100 meters and
>Thompson posting a 76.31 meter throw (250 feet, 4
>inches) in the javelin.>>

I thought the purpose of this meet was to help promote the sport in the U.S.? Giving top performer honors to a pair of foriegners certainly seems a strange way to express that.

**tafnut** · 07-22-2003, 07:03 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

yes but . . . much as I disagree with the NCAA's policy on scholarships to foreigners (esp. overage) having foreigners in our clubs is a good thing, and if they win, so be it. USA is all about INclusion, and the contribution they bring to clubs CAN help us in the long run. Not to restart my NCAA rant, but foreign collegians use up taxpayer money, resources, and roster spots with less long range benefit (except to those coaches who say, 'I'm just trying to jumpstart my program with some proven talent.' for which they mean, 'I'm too lazy to coach a B+ American talent, when I can get an A foreign talent for just a little more.'

OK, there, I'm done, I'm sorry . . . arrrrghhhh.

dj · 07-22-2003, 07:24 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

Nolle Graham is now a U.S. citizen, competed at USATF.

**Trinity** · 07-22-2003, 07:29 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

And has improved since her days at Seton Hall. When was the last time she ran close to 11.21. I have my opinion on the track program at Seton Hall.

**BillCarr** · 07-23-2003, 12:57 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

Ms. Graham's upset definitely left her mark on Crystal Cox . . . she was visibly a little agitated after the 100 and took it out on the field in the 200 when she blitzed the sub-23 performance.

In regards to the other comment about foreigners, the Indiana Invaders have a bunch, including Thompson, their top thrower Steve Ercegovac, their top male sprinter Tanko Braimah, and their top jumper Mark Dzradosi. I'm not sure about their citizenship status, but supposedly only US citizens were supposed to compete . . . .

Although the meet became very quickly a David (everybody else) vs. Goliath (the Invaders) meet, the host team still put on a very well run competition. They might want to cut back on a relay or two . . . GBTC was plenty happy to come home to Boston with twice as much prize money as last year when we snuck by the Invaders and won the thing, even though this year (2003) we were only second place.

We're also collectively praying that the State of Indiana pushes the funding for some lights so it can be a twilight meet . . .

**Guest** · 07-23-2003, 02:54 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

>Not to
>restart my NCAA rant, but foreign collegians use
>up taxpayer money

So do out-of-state athletes. No one is complaining about them.

**tafnut** · 07-23-2003, 02:56 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

because the cause is just

**Guest** · 07-23-2003, 03:33 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

tafnut

"USA is all about INclusion"

"foreign collegians use up taxpayer money, resources, and roster spots with less long range benefit"

Which is it?

I believe there are MANY long term advantages to having foreign athletes and students in the USA. It has been my experience that most (almost all) are exceedingly humble, willing to work/study very hard, offer a differing world view, and perhaps most importantly when they graduate they go "home" having experienced what the USA is about, and can become leaders in their country with at least an understanding of what the USA is all about.

Many of my most valued experiences in grad school came not from class studies, but from friendships and training with several foreign athletes.

I understand the tax-payer issues. However, we blow far more money in this country on causes far less worthwhile than educating a foriegn athlete.

Finally, one must remember that the conditions and opportunities afforded many foreign athletes while growing up are SO minimal - the fact that they can even come to the USA an compete in the classroom (and they do) is truly inspiring. Our poorest kids have infinitely more opportunities than most kids growing up in poor African nations.

I never met David Kimani (an overaged Kenyan) personally, but I'm sure based on what I have read that his contributions to Alabama and the students/athletes more than paid for whatever tax dollars he used.

Just my opinion, though. Given the pathetic management of many state budgets - I respect yours as well.

**tafnut** · 07-23-2003, 03:49 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

I TOTALLY agree with you el S. I think we SHOULD have foreigners in our colleges and on our teams, but . . . if the NCAA decided tomorrow that no foreigner could score at Conference or Nationals, how many coaches would still be willing to pay for them? That's where the nobility goes out the window - motive. They SAY the right stuff, but it's just about making themselves look better.
-just my nationalistic (dirty word) opinion

**Trinity** · 07-23-2003, 03:57 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

Ms. Cox has no reason to be upset, I'm sure this is one of her better 100m times. Plus her performance of the meet was outstanding, considering she ran 5 races in one day, with some pretty decent times. What are her PR's anyway?

**Guest** · 07-23-2003, 04:01 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

If I was a coach and I knew an athlete could not score at conference or nationals I would not recruit them either - whether they were from the USA or a foreigner. Coaches had better make themselves (and their programs) look damn good given the constant cutting of T&F programs.

I'm not sure why the foreigners wouldn't score, though. I think I missed a point of yours. Do other NCAA sports have this rule? What would be the benefit?

**BillCarr** · 07-23-2003, 05:34 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

let me clarify (apologies). Ms. Cox PR'd, but I don't think she realized before the race how fast Ms. Graham was. It was a pretty sizable PR for the Seton Hall standout as well, I believe.

Tilastopaja lists Ms. Cox's PR's as
100: 11.41
200: 22.70
400: 51.63

**Trinity** · 07-23-2003, 07:25 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

I think Ms. Cox can PR in the 200m at Pan Ams, running with teammate Allyson Felix. Her 22.98 was pretty impressive, since it was her last race of the day I believe. She seems to be improving through the season, and this will probably be her last meet of the season, unless she is on the relay pool for WC, but she probably won't see any baton passing in Paris. As of matter of fact, Monique Hennegan may run at least a prelim in Paris. Her recent 51.4 shows that she is rounding into shape.

**blacklily** · 07-23-2003, 08:47 PM

Re: USATF Release On Club Champs

>>Not to
>restart my NCAA rant, but foreign
>collegians use
>up taxpayer money

So do
>out-of-state athletes. No one is complaining
>about them.

For one, out-of-state athletes' families pay federal taxes. Federal funds flow to virtually every university in the land, due to Pell Grants & the like. I'm not opposed to foreign athletes in the NCAA. However, I am opposed to taxpayer funds usage to support these athletes, particularly since track & field isn't a revenue college sport. If their federations want to pony up training funds or private funds are raised, then I have no problem. It is not our responsibility to educate & train other country's athletes, using taxpayer money. Only in America...

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