Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shot Put technique question

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Shot Put technique question

    Relative to "different strokes for different folks," in the early '80s, Luis Delís of Cuba (three times World Ranked No. 1) threw in the USATF meet in Knoxville and I watched him up close. I've never claimed to be a discus technician but he had the most raw style I'd ever seen. Instead of a smooth transition across the circle, everything moving in a similar orbit, his arms and legs seemed all akimbo, flying everywhere. I asked John Powell how he could throw so far with such "bad" technique.

    John's response (needless to say, I paraphrase, 20 years down the line) was basically "it doesn't matter what you look like coming across the ring, so long as you generate maximal speed and get into the right release position. It's only in the last split-second that 'technique' comes into play, when you let the thing go."

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Shot Put technique question

      Interesting comment, the Irish throwers trained with the Lituanias in Sydney. Roman Ubartas told them that discus was all about the standing throw, to prove his point he went out drunk and threw a stand over 60m, they saw Alekna do 65.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Shot Put technique question

        Even though I am not good at all in the shot, I found once I reversed I could put both feet into the throw and added about 3 feet on my throw. Still only throwing just over 30 feet.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Shot Put technique question

          <different coaches have different beliefs on how to throw.>

          Tim, you should know that there are coaches and then there are real coaches. The competence level of coaches out there is as varied as, ...well, the level of athletisism and potential from one individual to the next. Reading a few books on plyometrics, subscribing to T&FN and being a T&F aficionado does not a throws coach make. The real base credentials of the TRUE throws coach lie in years of first hand experience in the trainning, toil and performance trenches of each implement. Too many self pronounced coaches out there that can actually ruin good talent, to accept your statement face value.

          I agree 100% with you on "timing problems" and the fact that everybody will have them from time to time. Its part of sports in general! Some will earnestly WORK to improve timing and with the "right coaching", they do. After all this is just a natural part of the process of growth in an athletic event. However, others just settle for mediocrity and accept packaged rationale like "you need to stick to 'your' style", as senseless and awckward as it may be. This is another way that a lot of talent goes misdirrected to the side and lost. It's all about WORK, TRAINNING, DRILLING etc.! All for the sake of improvement, unless the athlete is not interested in improvement, in which case he/she is NOT a good candidate for the event and should leave it.

          About fixed feet in competition etc. my feeling is that your training technique and your competition technique should be one and the same, period even if you have to trade off a few competitive performances for the aquisition of proper technique.

          I have more for you, Tim, but I have to get going for now. "I'LL BE BACK!"

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Shot Put technique question

            <I don't think you can definitively say that with a different technique someone would throw farther. Throwers have to chose a technique that suits them>

            Tim, you naturally don't change a base technique or alter it just for the empty sake of doing so, but instead you do so after much intelligent deliberation and study, with improvement through physical logic, being the ultimate objective. Its all about the continual effort to better utilize more of the available forces of physics, physiology and other scientific disciplines in the throw, in every thrower's quest to throw farther. Very simple! No resources should be left on the "table" or circle without being at least tweeked or tapped. Throwers will grow into their own base techniques but they should never fear learning a more effective method or adding to their implanted techniques for the sake of improvement. So its not pleasant and it takes work and practice to change, but after all practice is the key to the learning curve and an athlete is ever learning how to improve performance.

            Riedel has chosen to leave his leg's forces on the "table" and has been fortunate enough to have the physical attributes to throw far through massive speed and centrifugal force. And about consistency, let me tell you its not fixed leg throwing that produces it, but instead and once again its repetition and drilling with the consciencious effort to maintain top muscle and sensor memory that brings consistency.

            Nelson doesn't really spin any differently than anyone else out there, he has just been smart enough, persistant enough and brave enough to augment his spin in certain very important power areas, reaping more effective results than most. Al Feurbach did the same thing with the glide 30 years ago.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Shot Put technique question

              so Mr. Root - do you agree with Tim that the reverse is necessary? Is Michelle 'leaving it on the table'?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Shot Put technique question

                not so hot- I believe that you have misunderstood this posting thread somewhat. If you review it again you will see that its Tim who much more readily rationalizes the absence of a reverse. I feel that it is absolutely necessary if you're interested in applying the massive forces and "pop" from the lower body into your throw. The lower body has some of the largest, most explosive muscles in the human being. Mind you, this is only if you want to throw farther, and you're in the wrong event if you don't. Then again for the lazy and uninspired, life is much easier, if you think about it, as squats and lower body work can be altogether done away with. Right? Because why do all that work if its not going to be used towards your performance? No?

                And yes, Michelle is leaving this (6-10 feet) on the table as I've stated earlier. Its irrelevant that she has the HS record. She has a great deal of potential, and athletic ability and has a good amount of the fundamentals down, however she hardly incorporates the lower body into her throw and this is what she is leaving on the table.

                Is this making any sense to you?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Shot Put technique question

                  Yes, but the 6-10' is not credible. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something, which makes your advice less appealing. I fully agree with you that she's not utilizing all her power, but then the question arises, why would Michael Carter not know that and incorporate that into her technique?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Shot Put technique question

                    >Relative to "different strokes for different
                    >folks," in the early '80s, Luis Delís of Cuba
                    >(three times World Ranked No. 1) threw in the
                    >USATF meet in Knoxville and I watched him up
                    >close. I've never claimed to be a discus
                    >technician but he had the most raw style I'd ever
                    >seen. Instead of a smooth transition across the
                    >circle, everything moving in a similar orbit, his
                    >arms and legs seemed all akimbo, flying
                    >everywhere. I asked John Powell how he could
                    >throw so far with such "bad" technique.
                    >

                    John's response (needless to say, I
                    >paraphrase, 20 years down the line) was basically
                    >"it doesn't matter what you look like coming
                    >across the ring, so long as you generate maximal
                    >speed and get into the right release position.
                    >It's only in the last split-second that
                    >'technique' comes into play, when you let the
                    >thing go."

                    Delis had some unusual "style" points, his windup comes to mind. But in terms of the basics of throwing, he was one of the best (obviously with 70m+ PR!!). He got good pull, he was strong, he was quick and rotated well.

                    When you are only 6'1' and are throwing 70m, you are probably looking a little more "akimbo" (great word!) than the long, lean Reidel using his condor arms to launch it out there.

                    nb

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Shot Put technique question

                      not so hot- the 6-10 feet point on Michelle Carter is solely my own guestimate based on my ample personal experience and credentials. That's all! You don't have to buy it. And you know, if anything isn't credible and never has been, is her father's extra terrestial 81 footer in HS twenty-some years ago. Its in the books, no doubt about that, and it will last 'till the end of time.

                      Also, not so hot, what you sense is not a chip on anyone's shoulder, but the confident professional opinion of a well-seasoned, been there, done that student, elite performer and prominent coach of the shot and discus, who is tired of reading misleading and erroneous advice for throwers from unqualified "coaches" and goof-balls out there. By the way I don't post advice here for you, you see I'd have to know you for that to happen. What I post here is simply my opinions, that's all, regardless of how appealing they might or might not be to you.

                      The question regarding Mr. Carter's coaching of his daughter should be addressed to Mr. Carter himself. I can't answer it for him. What I can tell you is that a good thrower doesn't necessarily make a good coach in every case, and that Carter himself had a very effective post, pop and reverse. Go figure!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        the root, men vs women

                        I read your post about Michelle Carter adding 6-10 feet to her throw if she reversed. I must respectfully disagree.

                        First, she does a tremendous job blocking with her left side while finishing the throw. This strong blocking action would most likely be weakened with a reverse.

                        Second, female throwers arent as explosive as male throwers. That's why most female putters glide, and most female discus throwers dont reverse. In the shot and discus most women throwers rely on a long pull and strong block for distance. Women simply cant produce the horsepower of a Godina, Nelson, Alekna.

                        This is why I feel Michelle Carter's finish is very effective. She would probably lose a foot or two if she tried to reverse.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: the root, men vs women

                          Dear Mr. Root,

                          Here's what you said in your last post:

                          “based on my ample personal experience and credentials”

                          “confident professional opinion of a well-seasoned, been there, done that student, elite performer and prominent coach of the shot and discus, who is tired of reading misleading and erroneous advice for throwers from unqualified "coaches" and goof-balls out there”

                          Do you see the problem here? By not identifying yourself, you have no more credibility than I in the matter (and I admit I don't know). You could be anyone with an attitude. You simply can't make statements like that and expect us to buy them at face value. As for the chip on your shoulder, these statements explain that, but do not justify it. You speak of 'credentials' but offer none. Sorry to doubt you, but I must.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            shot technique

                            Dear Mr/Mrs. not so hot,

                            I express myself very candidly, and without frills and thrills I call the "shots" as they are. It seems that my method has your intestines all tied up in a knot and unable to see the forest for the trees. What is it that disturbs you more, Sir/Maddam, my straight forwardness in expression, the knowledge that I bring to the table or the fact that I haven't identified myself? Do clarify.

                            Our intentions are very different with regards to this forum. Lets face it, you know your fair share of the throwing events and mechanics, but unlike me, you're using it as a mere toy in this "sandbox"/forum with the sole purpose of inciting and provoking aimless feedback, while you get to play possum (it takes all kinds!). Well, although it works for you (ei. my expanssive feedback), I find it quite disingenuous and lame. I, on the other hand, use this forum with the hope that my imput would serve as a helpfull tool for throwers that seek better understanding of their event and are legitimately looking for improvement.

                            To repeat myself, not so hot, you don't have to buy anything from me...as I am NOT selling anything, and also it's OK to doubt me. Some of the largest icons of human kind have been doubted...just don't forget that there's always repentance to turn to.



                            Hunter- I totally agree with you that Michelle does an exceptional job of blocking. Absolutely!! However, it seems that you believe that reversing is a trade off for blocking and I don't. I believe that they coexist in the perfect release in a kind of symbiotic arrangement, as it were. Michelle just needs to learn to incorporate a smart reverse to what she already has. And as I've mentioned before, its all part of the PROCESS...the process of learning, particularly for someone so young. OK, she might lose a foot or two with a reverse INITIALLY, naturally being something new, but with her athletic ability and age, that period will very likely be shortlived. It could be as little as just a few weeks even. And what better time for her to begin to experience this than now? I see it as a trade off of loosing a few feet short term for a 6-10 feet pay-off by say next winter.

                            Hunter- I sure would like know why you feel that the glide more readilly harbours the less explosive thrower, because in my book its the exact opposite if anything. And also, while I sign out, I don't believe that there has to necessarily be a relation between explosiveness and gender, unless nurtured and taught, as it so subliminally done in this country. Here I sight the foreign women throwers through time, particularly the Russians, Germans etc. Have you ever seen these women perform close up?

                            Later!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: shot technique

                              Root--give up coaching and get into politics. You can write speeches for me in fact. It's rare to find somebody who can string so many words together and end up saying absolutely nothing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: shot technique

                                We seem to be very high on ourselves. By now, I don't think anyone is buying anything that you're selling. With your expertise amd my millions in venture capital, we could run a great scam. Ever heard of junk bonds? That's what you appear to be selling.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X