Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shot Put technique question

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    shot technique

    nm

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: who's who?

    Plus, if you have spent time on "The Ring" you would know because Hunter posts a lot there!

    Go Hawks!

    nb

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: who's who?

    "I don't digest pompous insinuations and coarse disrespect that well" - The Root

    Reaaaally? Can you say 'gross hypocrisy'? You, more than anyone else on the board, have shown the above. I can assure you that NO ONE respects your delusional insights.

    Skeptical, I'm still with you on this one. Skepticism is a good thing, but as for for me being Hunter, I wish my PR was near 60'. How did I do it? Look at his e-mail address: Stonecoldkenton. An unusual name, so google it with shot put. The third hit is about an Iowa Hawkeye shot putter named Kenton. That's why I asked. Your comment smacked of cynicism though. Don't confuse the two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    who's who?

    Sat, Aug 9 at 08:43:36 PDT >Hunter, are you a Hawkeye? If that's you, I know
    you are a good thrower and respect your opinion...etc., etc.>


    not so hot/Hunter - how did you get the impression that "Hunter" is a Hawkeye on this thread by that date? ESP? Gave it away here chump! You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not ALL of the people all of the time... Nice try Hunter!

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    ROOT'N FOR YOU!

    My, my...! Seems I've upset the hive. You know, with a very few exceptions here, you all read like a room full of weeping willows. Whimper, whimper, whimper...! You should all get your Kleenexes and get together for a big hug. Awww!! You're like a pack of bloodthirsty hyenas just waiting to strike at the unguarded prey. I guess I must have shaken your happy pecking order and hypocritical harmony... You’re all spineless!

    Look Kenny, OK, I admit that, in retrospect, I was perhaps a bit harsh in script with you, but you see, I don't digest pompous insinuations and coarse disrespect that well (far back as Aug 5), and I tend to lash back fiercely once I get my fill. I'm a counter-puncher, but I can be an unconscious, ruthless adversary in the mud (much like in the ring). I don't take prisoners. This has always been my nature and additionally, circumstances and life's course (like a throwing and lifting career) have reinforced it. It has been often times mentioned that this Hulk-like rage has been pivotal in my throwing success. With this having been said, I offer you my sincere apologies and I assure you that I've never, for an instant, considered you an adversary (no reason to), rather, by the mere fact that you are a striving thrower, I consider you more of a younger brother than anything else and linked, if you will, by "the almighty" 16lbs ball. The fact is that you remind me pretty well of myself back when...just not sooo pompous and cocky as you and much better looking

    As for the "debate" (reverse vs. no reverse) all that I can say at this point is that it has taken on its own life, morphed beyond recognition and now encompasses so many other “ROOT” issues in this thread that only a surgeon can pick it apart safely for discussion. Suffice at this point to state that I don't much care how anybody decides to throw the implements. This is a very subjective choice really, and then too, you could only LEAD a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...You can throw the shot on your head if that's what you want. All that I'm saying is that once you discover that you can throw much farther on your feet, you will never throw on your head again if distance is your goal. The fixed leg throw, in my opinion just simply leaves the entire lower body pop out of the throw and even though you might be winning some meets, you’re just not throwing as far as you can. This to me defeats the universal, two-fold ambition of the real thrower (as opposed to the “craic” thrower); to win and to throw farther. If you're content with leaving soooooooo much behind, then, in my opinion, you need to be playing golf or something else. And, yes, I believe in bulk improvements from year to year, since I’ve witnessed a good number of them, coached another good number and have personally experienced it in my own throwing career. I agree with you that it takes a multitude of factors like solid training, weight room improvements, and overall technical improvements, etc., but I consider these “constants” or expected improvements that should always be taking place. The catalyst, however, that will turn the expected to the bulk gain, is the incorporation/execution of a major technical boost, I want to say “revelation”. To the fixed leg thrower, that revelation is the post, pop and reverse. And YES! I believe that Michelle Carter can in fact be throwing 60’- 61’ by this fall and 65’ by this time next year with the right post/pop/reverse, given the “constants” remain in place. I believe that she can start packing for Athens, in fact. I know, I know, you and all of your patronizing cronies want to steadfastly hold me to 10’ improvement by next winter, so that it could be better contested and everyone could feel better about themselves, but that’s just the extreme to my projected RANGE of 6-10 feet. Who amongst us wouldn’t be absolutely ecstatic with an overall improvement of 5-6 ft. by this time next year? That would give you a 65ft throw, Kenny, which at the right time and with some luck, could also give you a placing at the Trials.

    Kenny, after reviewing your injury I’m confident that it should have no bearing on your throwing any longer. I think that the damage that it was going to do to your performance in the ring is behind you now, so just put it out of your mind and concentrate on what’s ahead. I will, of course, BE ROOT’N FOR YOU.

    By the way I’m not a proponent of year round training.

    And who is this Throwzfan anyway? I’ve thought that you handle the English language, as well as statistical information pretty well all along, however this individual seems to think that you need an interpreter and has taken the initiative to donate his services. Have you noticed? I guess you need to thank him now. I have a few choice thoughts a brewing for this person, but I’ll let them boil a bit longer. I do want to state that the weight of the shot at the Pam Am Jrs. was an oversight on my part, however, Garret Johnson did throw 63+ indoors with the Int’l weight this year as a FlSt. freshman. You really hung me on that one, Throwzfan!! Whats the difference, a few feet? You’re a real stickler aren’t you? Completely foiled my point, didn’t you? So much prowling, stalking and salivating to strike at me, only to miscue your jump in the end. What a bite!!

    Later fellas!

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Root and the reverse

    Mr. Root I can't agree with the tone of your attacks on others, but i appreciate the logic of what you are saying, however I believe that Miss Carter may improve tremendously due to maturing and hard woke, not due to reversing. I sought information on how to train shotputters some time ago and I recievedphone calls and detailed training logs from a former world class East german thrower, and he also included the logs of a world class current german thrower in a different event ad explained what their training phillosophy was. Much of the training involved throwing the shot and discus with and without a reverse, he could throw about 60cm more with a reverse, and the young lady could throw about 2.5m in the discus with a reverse, however he expplained certain individuals could throw further with no reverse and that is the approach they took, simple and pragmatical. i would appreciate itif you e-mailed me your identity as I think you might be a friend of a friend of mine,
    cheers,
    Leo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: who's who?

    I started this thread (which I now regret), and I had no idea who Hunter was till he identified himself. I admire him for
    a. identifying himself
    b. be an actual thrower himself
    He is actually pretty good and would have had to be enormously modest to identify himself as not so hot. I threw 32' in a decathlon once which is why I use this alias. I post here occasionally and now I'm extremely glad I did NOT identify myself after the direction The Root took it.
    I apologize to everyone for The Root's mean-spiritedness, because it's my fault I got it started. I esp. apologize to Hunter/Ken. I admire your candor. I understand your skepticism, skeptic, because I am a big fan of skepticism. We should never take anyone's word just because they say so. Ironically, you'll just have to take my word that I'm none of those other people as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    who's who?

    throwzfan + not so hot + jonathan swift + generics = Hunter

    Leave a comment:


  • NormZylstra
    replied
    Improvement

    I think we need to remember that just because Mr. Carter threw one way does not mean that is what he currently feels is the best technique ... I had 2 friends who were coached by Mac Wilkins, a big reverser when throwing the discus ... Mr. Wilkins taught them to throw with fixed-feet ... what does this say?

    As far as improvement ... I improved thus ...
    1st year ... 6' (14 years old)
    2nd year ... 7'
    3rd year ... 4'
    4th year ... 3'
    5th year ... 2'6"
    6th year ... 1'3" (injured)
    7th year ... 2'

    I was not the best trained athlete ... but 10' improvements are rare ... more so when you already have adequet techniques.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: root, root, root

    Ok Mr Root, thank you for the compliment on the site and addmittedly you never actually said that there is only one way to throw, but on the reverse you have stated :

    “absolute necessity to do so that is premordial, if the objective is to utilize optimum short muscle (total body) explosiveness, not wasting any muscle group's energy contribution to the throw.”

    Hunter asked:
    “Do you think that any thrower that doesnt reverse in the shot or disc is making a mistake?”

    Root:
    ”Hunter- In answer to your question above, Hunter, I feel that unless there's real physical impediment or handicap of some sort that directly negates the reverse mechanics, the reverse should always be at least attempted, but never without adequate supervision and good visual resources. Given the inherent quest of throwers to throw farther it would be ludicrous to ignore the huge benefits that a good post, pop and reverse offers face value, in comparison to the fixed leg option.

    You have a choice of prizes: Behind door #1 there's a popular Italian sports car, and behind door #2 there's an American economy vehicle. Which would you choose? I would consider door #2 a mistake, a BIG mistake.”

    Hunter also asked:
    “So you would say that the East German (no reverse) style of throwing the discus is wrong? This is a technique that has created a monstrous world record, at least two olympic gold medals, and at least 6 world championships in the 20 years.”

    Root:
    “Hunter, the East Germans and the Russians have been kicking our butts in the throws for several decades now, not just the last two, and in all of those decades they have used the entire spectrum of techniques. Its because of this that their success can't be so readily attributed to the fixed leg technique that you sponsor. There have been a multitude of factors that take credit for their success through time, least of which is (without opening an entirely new can of worms)the mass use of performance enhancing "aids". They were the pioneers and lab rats in the incorporation of steroid and hormone benefits into the throws, have always remained at the forefront of related research and remain, even today, ahead of the detection curve. Considering this, where can you now place the credit?

    Hunter, I know Riedel & Schult personally and have trained with them, and Dan Taylor, I have also met and observed (by the way a great talent-big moose!) And, Hunter, please, I've never stated that any part of a throwing technique is magical. C'mon!

    Your quote "Which style you ultimately choose depends on your technique and your physical gifts." We both perfectly agree with this...just as I've mentioned much earlier in the thread "If you have optimum "momentum", I call it "POP", and the correct technique for yourself, then, like Johnny Cochran would say "you MUST reverse". "... the correct concept of the throwing "POP", or reverse/follow-through..., is not so much the voluntary arm/body continuance through the release, but instead the absolute necessity to do so that is primordial, if the objective is to utilize optimum short muscle (total body) explosiveness, not wasting any muscle group's energy contribution to the throw and to harness the release and contain the circle." So that...if your technique is heavy with post and pop and fierce generated momentum, then your style will have to include a good reverse to contain the thrust. Nothing more, nothing less...”

    So what I’m getting is
    1) You must reverse (i.e. only one way to throw)
    2) The only way non reversing throwers can throw so far is by using drugs.

    Which is why I made those suggestions in my last post.

    “Nelson doesn't really spin any differently than anyone else out there, he has just been smart enough, persistent enough and brave enough to augment his spin in certain very important power areas, reaping more effective results than most.”

    Have we watched the same thrower? His torque technique (discussed on the Ring recently) is different to Godina and both are radically different to the Oldfield double leg lift.


    Root:
    “**Hunter's opinions on Michelle:

    1)Let's see, he feels that women are the lesser, weaker and non-explosive gender and simply shouldn't expect to throw as far as men.”

    Hunter NEVER said women were the lesser gender, he did say that they were less explosive, what woman pound for pound can match a man in Olympic Lifting?

    So far you’ve aggressively attacked Broose and Hunter while remaining anonymous. I agree with Throwzfan, that’s in very bad taste.

    Anyway you never answered my question, what did Reidel say when you told him he could throw 30ft further with a reverse? I personally believe that the only way he could throw 80.64m with the 2kg disc is if he was throwing from several stories off the ground. Maybe your just having trouble describing German laughter

    "For the craic" is Irish meaning for fun, for enjoyment because after all, the throwers, with very few exceptions, are the nicest bunch of people in track & field. And because I throw for fun and don't train as often as I should I can only throw 35m, which from what you've said to Broose would make me a "looser", "familiar with WRONG style" having "ingrained BAD technique"

    Tim

    Leave a comment:


  • throwzfan
    replied
    root, root, root

    First, I agree with Hunter. You dont understand the basis of his argument- that men and women have different physical gifts. You point out that women throw lighter implements, and think this disproves Hunter's argument. If the lighter implements make for a level playing field then:

    1) WOMEN WOULD THROW AS FAR AS MEN. This is not true, women world leaders are typically 2 meters behind the men in the shot, 3 meters behind men in the disc, 10 meters behind in the hammer, and 25 meters behind in the jav. The NCAA mens shot was won with a throw of almost 72 feet, the women didnt crack 60. Root, how can you explain this?

    2) WOMEN WOULD IMPLEMENT THE SAME STYLES AS MEN. On the contrary most women disc throwers don't reverse or use a very tall, slow style taking advantage of their levers. I have never seen a female disc thrower use the dynamic, explosive style of a Bloom, Fazekas or Wilkins.

    Also not a single world class (19m+) female shotputter uses the spin. As we all know the spin works best in the hands of an athletic, explosive athlete. If women and men have the same relative levels of explosiveness, like you claim, why havent women been spinning 70+ feet like the men do?

    These 2 points are FACTS and shouldnt be perceived as gender discrimination.

    Also, the athletes use 6k shots at Pan Am Jrs, not 7.26k. Once again you are terribly misinformed. Do you know anything???

    You are right, 5 foot improvements are very common. But once again you have flawed logic:

    1) These improvements usually are attained by kids that had very poor technique and coaching in highschool. These athletes improve drastically because it is the first time they have had decent coaching, facilities, etc. Do you think Michelle Carter has poor technique or coaching?

    2) You stated that changing ONE SPECIFIC ASPECT OF TECHNIQUE would cause a 6-10' increase in distance. I dont think anyone here is saying that Michelle cant gain 6-10' on her throw, but it is going to take an increase in strength and techniqal expertise as well as a strong work ethic and the proper environment. To suggest that she will be a 65' shotputter by winter just by reversing is going a bit overboard.

    CARTER IS COACHED BY HER FATHER. Why wouldn't he teach her the technique he used so successfully?
    Because he has an understanding of the throws.

    IF SHE COULD BE THROWING 65 FEET USING THE REVERSE THEN SHE WOULD BE THROWING 65 FEET USING THE REVERSE!!!!

    I think it was in very bad taste that you dug up dirt on some kid who ACTUALLY GAVE HIS REAL NAME, and then anonomously bashed him.

    Do you think Taylor could throw 80' if he reversed?

    You complained earlier that people were getting too worked up discussing this topic. Then you post a message that is incredibly inflammatory and inappropriate. At a certain point you gave up trying to defend your ideas, which werent all that bad, and started to focus your efforts on insulting people. You are obviously a pathetic, lonely human being trying to make yourself feel good by tearing others down.

    One last request: I think we would all like to know how you know Reidel, Schult and Taylor.
    Good Luck,
    throwzfan

    Leave a comment:


  • Hunter
    replied
    Root-my history

    Thanks for displaying the class that has made you a favorite on this forum.

    Let me give you a few more details about my throwing career:

    As a freshman I threw 58'10". That summer I suffered a serious injury to my throwing hand where I severed a tendon and needed surgey to put my hand back together. As a result I was unable to train normally for several months. I had to redshirt the indoor season because I wasnt able to throw until december, I went 7 months without throwing.

    I competed that outdoor season and STILL managed to increase my PR by over a foot to just shy of 60 feet. With only a few months of LIGHT throwing.

    Currently, my training is going very well and I am stronger than I ever have been. It is my goal this year to throw in the 63' range and go to the olympic trials.

    This is an injury that I will never fully recover from and I appreciate your sensitivity regarding this issue.

    As far as the reverse debate goes, i guess i've won since you've stopped discussing the issues and have resorted to petty insults.

    Ken

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hunter's opinions on Michelle

    Root,
    Your patronizing tone and vicious personal attack have ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE on this board and I hope you get bounced. Take your bad attitude and worse technical knowledge elsewhere please.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hunter's opinions on Michelle

    Root,

    How sure are the the 65ft throw at the Pan Ams was with the 16lb shot. Isn't the int'l jr shot 6kg (~13lb)?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hunter
    replied
    Re: Hunter's opinions on Michelle

    is this 5 foot improvement due to 1 change in technique? Usually it is due to a multitude of factors like training year round, improving in the weightroom, and improving technically.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X