Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Women's 4x100 - US!

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

    GDR 31.83, USA 31.92 and USSR 32.00"

    and Koch 34.50 in her WR 400.....THAT is scary!

    Comment


    • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

      All things considered, I don't think
      >the times are that bad. Obviously, Pomoshchnikova got injured, which explains
      >her 10.75, but also Gohr was in poor shape and Ashford had a very slow start
      >due to the collision with Flo-Jo. Had the Americans had a good baton pass,
      >Ashford would have probably run 9.90 or thereabout.
      I believe we'd need to
      >look at the split times of the other 5 teams in that final to conclude on the
      >conditions - the anchors of the top 3 teams all had reasons for running slow.
      >Also, if the wind was blowing against them, why weren't the 2nd leg splits all
      >that impressive ?

      Even 9.90 isn't that good for Ashford, assuming that relay rolling start for anchor legs are 1.1 faster than 100m performance, form the data i have form many championships. Ashford's anchor in Los Angeles was 9.77, which is in accordance with her 10.97 wind -1.2 in 100m final. I think Ashford was more or less in similar shape in Los Angeles and in Seoul, where she ran a comfortable 10.88 in quarter-final (w+1.6).


      Michael Lewis: OK for the drink!
      Marita Koch ran 34.1 during 47.60, rounded-up to the nearest tenth.

      Comment


      • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

        For those who say Evelyn would not have run down Heike ... Please note that the GDR was very meticulous about having their best people perform where they were best qualified to perform ... And that Heike was NOT a regular member of their relay rotation ... There had to be a reason for this ... Since she was available and healthy my only assumption is that she was NOT the strong relay runner that many of you think she was ... Note that Heike ran on only 4 relays that ran under 43.00 .. Twice in Germany in 1987 (41.79 and 42.04) .. And in the semis and final in Tokyo in 1991 .. In Tokyo, inspite of having Krabbe on the second leg and a young outstanding, top of her game, Breuer on leadoff this squad only got bronze ... Leading coming into the anchor leg, Heike was run down by both Ottey and Privalova ... Which leads me to believe that she would have faired no better against Evelyn in 88 as Evelyn ran what she needed to to outrun Gohr and was more than capable of 9.7/9.8 if needed !!!!

        Comment


        • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

          Two thoughts on the Seoul anchors:

          1. Unlikely there was any wind hindrance, and if there was, that it was terribly significant. There were 37 races (22 men, 15 women) in the rounds of the 100s and of those, only 1 had a headwind; the prevailing wind was up the homestretch. And as to strength, only 2 of the 37 were over 2.0.

          2. Despite Pierre-Jean's claim that they are "official times" from Omega, as noted in another thread (or was it higher up here?), the timing companies seem to know nothing about relay splitting, as evidenced by the constant release of first-leg 4x4 times that are taken as the runner crosses the line, no matter what lane, even w/ a 3-turn stagger. One has to consider the possibility that those times reflect something longer than the last 100m of the race. (This contention could be disproved if men's figures are available, and they're similarly retarded, but I've never seen any.)

          Comment


          • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

            "Michael Lewis: OK for the drink!
            Marita Koch ran 34.1 during 47.60, rounded-up to the nearest tenth."

            Are you from France? Then it won't be a California red, no offense to editors.

            The greatest race we will never see: Koch (Canberra form) v Flojo (Seoul form) over 300m. Or is that like starting another Allan Webb thread?

            Comment


            • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

              >Two thoughts on the Seoul anchors:

              1. Unlikely there was any wind hindrance,
              >and if there was, that it was terribly significant. There were 37 races (22
              >men, 15 women) in the rounds of the 100s and of those, only 1 had a headwind;
              >the prevailing wind was up the homestretch. And as to strength, only 2 of the
              >37 were over 2.0.

              2. Despite Pierre-Jean's claim that they are "official
              >times" from Omega, as noted in another thread (or was it higher up here?), the
              >timing companies seem to know nothing about relay splitting, as evidenced by
              >the constant release of first-leg 4x4 times that are taken as the runner
              >crosses the line, no matter what lane, even w/ a 3-turn stagger. One has to
              >consider the possibility that those times reflect something longer than the
              >last 100m of the race. (This contention could be disproved if men's figures are
              >available, and they're similarly retarded, but I've never seen any.)


              1. Statistics about wind in Seoul would be interesting for the day of the 4x100m final, not few days earlier during the 100m individual competition. Wind varies a lot during a day, not mention a week.

              2. Jean-Claude Patinaud obtain those splits from Omega for Seoul 4x100m male final (in "4x100m temps automatiques 1932-1990", please contact him to buy his statistic books!!!!):
              Linford Christie 8.95, John Mair 9.10, Vitaliy Savin 9.12, Stefano Tilli 9.16, Max Morinière 9.26, Attila Kovacs 9.32, Dirk Schweisfürth 9.34, Brian Morrison 9.55.
              Those anchor legs don't seem that slow to me comparing with their individual 100m times in Seoul.


              Michael Lewis: yes i'm French, dating will be difficult LOL

              Comment


              • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                The greatest race we will never
                >see: Koch (Canberra form) v Flojo (Seoul form) over 300m. Or is that like
                >starting another Allan Webb thread?

                I did simulation from speed curves with their best performances over different distances, and i estimated Koch's best at around 33.90 and Griffith-Joyner around 34.10. Note that Koch in Canberra had the benefit of strong wind in the opposite straight, helping her to pass in 34.1 at 300m (look at the flags in the video). An Aussie witness said to me he remembers the wind was swirling and it turned to be favourable too in the last straight. I know it happened sometimes in Helsinki stadium due to special architecture.

                Comment


                • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                  ..

                  Comment


                  • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                    See the thread "Can You Have A Wind-Aided 400?"

                    http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... sage=26475

                    Comment


                    • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                      Michael Lewis: yes i'm French, dating will be difficult LOL

                      OK, ahem, well then, carrying on with our next story,....

                      Comment


                      • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                        >Exactly. Had the DDR had Drechsler on last Ashford would not have caught her at
                        >all. If you watch the race the Americans nearly lost because of Echols on the
                        >2nd leg. Behrendt runs her down big time. Aueswald had a great 3rd leg, but so
                        >did Flo Jo, dont think she didnt. As Pierre says , the exchanges on the last
                        >leg were poor for both.



                        Andrea - I don't suppose you're related to anyone called Becky, are you...?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                          Becky who? Do I know you?

                          Conway, you can't compare a Drechsler in 1991 to a Drechsler in 1988. She was much faster in 88.
                          Correct, she did'nt run in Seoul relays but she was apparently injured so not used in either relay. I understand from my DDR friends it was UNLIKELY she was going to run in the 4x100 anyway, but that she would have run in the 4x400 because of the poor form of Neubauer and Emmelman. However, using her in the 4x100 was an option. She was, afterall, their only 100m medalist and finalist, indeed their only medalist at either 100 or 200 that year. Besides, she couldnt have had a much worse exchange then Gohr and Aueswald did. Anyway, she would have been more likley to be on the second leg as she had practiced with Gladisch-Moller and she would have given the GDR a much bigger margin, one that Ashford couldnt have made up on Marlies.
                          If for some reason the DDR would have used Heike on the last leg instead she'd only need a slight lead to hold off Ashford. 10.91 v 10.91 in 86, 10.83w v 10.85w in 88... say's it all I'll say.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                            First off I have to compare Heike 1988 to Heike 1991 cause that's the only races she had to compare ... And that says volumes to me - the fact that the Germans had NOT made her a standard fixture in their relays ...

                            The other thing that I want to bring up that seems to constantly get lost when people discuss relays, is that 100 meter sprinting and relay running are two TOTALLY different things ... So comparing individuals 100 meter times is irrelevent ... There are multitudes of examples of guys with inferior 100 times outrunning their superior competition in relays (men & women) ... The most blatant current example being Christine Arron who routinely runs must faster in the 4x1 than in the relay ... Ashford (as good as she was in the open 100) was even better in the relay as it generally took Evelyn til near mid race in the open 100 to get going ... Just as Gohr (fit or less fit) was never able to hold off Ashford, Heike would have had less of a chance ...

                            Why ?? Because (and it is my guess that this is why she was not a regular on the German relays) her stride pattern was much too long ... Heike had a very long loping stride pattern, derived from long jumping .. She was a jumper first, sprinter second ... In the relay you have to turn over quickly and reach top speed while in the passing zone .. Heike could not do this ... Heike was well out of the zone before reachign anything near top speed ... Her loping stride A) would throw off the normal passing efficiency of the Germans, and B) allow her competition to reach top speed before her ... This is what allowed both Ottey and Privalova to run right by her in Tokyo ... Running the open 100 was actually more beneficial to Heike as the blocks forced her into a shorter more efficient sprinting stride pattern at the start of the race and helped her transition into full speed BETTER than her standing start in the relay ... Whereas a sprinter like Ashford with tremendous turnover benefitted from being up and into her running movement at the start of the relay ...

                            I'm sure Heike was available for relay duty in 1988 ... But I would bet that the above explanation is why she was not one of the first four to be on the relay ...

                            Comment


                            • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                              "Some people run better in relays than they do in individual events, probably because they are more relaxed in relays, and so straight comparisons based on 100 times alone are not enough info. Good examples are Grit Breuer, Glenroy Gilbert, and Christine Arron."

                              See this thread.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                                Michael Lewis: you say that Arron runs better in relay than in individual because she's more relax, that's not true. Actually, she looked more impressive in relay because she have always had a bad start technique out of the blocks, a problem she hadn't with the relay flying start. Besides, in the years 1999-2000, a knee problem hampered her pushing phase during 100m, and she didn't felt pains with flying start.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X