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Women's 4x100 - US!

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  • #61
    Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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    • #62
      Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

      Rob, I lived for years with the communist propaganda machine. Pravda of the 60's would have loved your analysis. You have a point of a superior stick passing by the German team, but to argue that they have a head to head superior speed is incredulous.
      "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
      by Thomas Henry Huxley

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      • #63
        Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

        Rob,

        There is a great thread in the historical section which would be more appropriate:

        http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... hread=2933

        cheers

        Michael

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        • #64
          Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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          • #65
            Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

            Rob, you are putting forth a good argument, but I respectfully disagree. IMHO, Koch-Torrence is close, Krabbe is no match for Marion, Wöckel at her best is far (several tenths) slower the Flo-Jo and Evelyn ran down Göhr from behind at least twice (what I remember seeing in the eighties). As far as the jingoism is concerned, you are absolutely right, some Americans practice it and so do some British, don't they :-)
            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
            by Thomas Henry Huxley

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            • #66
              Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

              Flo-jo this and Flo-jo that. See the Seoul 4x1, given her obvious superiority, she did not impose same on the third leg of the 4x1 so why are we now giving her credit where it is not due. Many of us in attendance in Seoul will argue that her 4x4 split was more impressive than her 4x1. Wockel/Eckert over Flo-jo. Gohr may have aproblem holding off Ashford though if Ashford is close.

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              • #67
                Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                You're not Allan's brother are you? LOL What years did you compete? Do I know you?

                Steve...I've danced with Koch in a disco (there I am, shamelessly name-dropping again!)

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                • #68
                  Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                  btw...that was directed to Rob...

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                  • #69
                    Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                    Rob ... I am a huge fan of the East German women sprinters ... I still have the photos of them I took when they were in Los Angeles in 1983 for the last Dual on US soil .. But what you are saying with respect to the All Time 4x1 is heresy ...

                    First of all on the first leg Koch v Torrence we are going to be virtually even but the edge HAS to go to Torrence .. While their PR's were similar, Torrence ran far more 10.8's than Koch who only had the one ... Torrence was a far more accompllished short sprinter than Koch ... Now if the topic were 4x2 we'd be having a different discussion ...Both fast and tough competitors although

                    Second leg Krabbe v Jones ... Are you out of your mind ??? You site the fact that Krabbe had a faster relay split .... First off few races have splits taken so to randomly take a pair of splits and compare them is ridiculous ... But even taking that pair of splits, what you fail to note is that the split of Krabbe was taken in a race where no other splits are available making it somewhat suspect .. And that Jones has a MUCH better PR, more consistency, has run down other quality sprinters, has a much better 200 history, and we are talking about the second leg where the sprinter is going to carry the baton a bit farther, the edge by all accounts should go to Torrence !!! Oh, by the way, Marion has a 9.75 split from Edmonton ... A race in which ALL of the splits were electronically taken !!!

                    Third leg ... FloJo v Wockel ... You must be mad ... 10.65/21.32 v 10.95/21.85 (since you like using numbers) ... THAT race is no contest ... Period ... End of discussion ...

                    Anchor ... Ashford v Gohr ... Now you want to talk tight sprinters, Gohr's picture sits at the definition of tight ... Gohr never came from behind on anyone that I am aware of ... And as another poster stated I can think of at least 2 or three when Evelyn ran her down ... Not that it would be necessary in this case ... And since you are a big fan of split times Ashford had a 9.77 in Los Angeles while the best I can find for Gohr are a pair of 10.41's from Prag and Rome !!! So no matter what condition the baton came to Evelyn Gohr would be toast !!!

                    East Germany was great ... And put together some nice squads ... And always seemed to have a good group of sprinters together at the same time ... But if we are talking about putting the 4 best together for one race how you gonna beat the two best all time on the clock (FloJo and Marion) paired with maybe the strongest anchor ever in Ashford ... And leading off with a 10.82/21.71/49.5 who on her own is as fast as anyone the GDR can serve up, and she is the SLOW one on this team !!!!!

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                    • #70
                      Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                      "Steve...I've danced with Koch in a disco (there I am, shamelessly name-dropping again!)"

                      Not really, you didn't name the venue.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                        >"Steve...I've danced with Koch in a disco (there I am, shamelessly
                        >name-dropping again!)"

                        Not really, you didn't name the venue.

                        Prague for sure & Gateshead I think...

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                        • #72
                          Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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                          • #73
                            Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                            Did Koch and her husband ever do that cross-Canada in a motor-home trip they wanted to make?

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                            • #74
                              Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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                              • #75
                                Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                                Well Rob ... I've already aquieced that the GDR had the awesome ability to put together high level squads over and over ... But as I stated we are NOT comparing the consistency of the two nations, who had the better squads, or who had the most top sprinters ... What we are talking about is how theh GDR's best 4 would have compared against the US's best 4 ...

                                And yes the GDR did cease to exist in 1989 ... But this argument is NOT about how well they may have done after ... Again we are talking about how the best they DID produce would have done against the best the US has produced ...

                                Hell I have no doubt that if the GDR had continued FloJO would probably be sitting around 4th or 5th on the all time list ... But we can only deal with the athletes and numbers that have been produced to date ... And those give the edge to the US's 4 best ...

                                As for relay ability and passing ... Part of the problem with the US is that we usually have one or two poor sprinters paired with the stars ... Ashford is one of the most sure handed relay runners in history ... FloJo is arguably the best third leg ever produced outside of the GDR (including recieving and passing the stick) ... And Torrence hade nerves of steel ... So (as all of this is speculation) I am guessing that this squad would be one of the best ever produced by the US at passing the stick ...

                                They simply have too much fire power to win ... Now if you want to extrapolate the GDR into current history then that would be another story ... But merging the fantacy of putting the top four together at one time, with the reality of who those four are, the US has a much better foursome ...

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