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Women's 4x100 - US!

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  • #91
    Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

    You cannot use 1983 as typical example. GDR were very jetlagged according to report.Besides year before the GDR beat USA in GDR V USA in Berlin. Same thing?

    I think we are looking at best relay team, not four fastest. In this case I believe GDR women would beat USA. GDR practice everyday like in Russia it was part of normal days training.
    Also look at my team in 1993. Russia beat USA when both run 41.47. My team not the best four but exchange good and good bend runner in Voronova. I dont think we underestimate the exchanges as these so important in relays!!
    For best GDR team Gladisch in 1985 had best start in World Cup, even this magazine vote it as one of best performance of year! Gladishcmakes up a great stagger on others. I would put her on first leg most surely. I think best to keep Aueswald to Marlie on last as they practice so much together, but could have a choice of Marita Koch, Krab or even Drechsler on second. I competed with this jumper and she was fast.
    Im not so sure on US team as so many more to chose from but Ashford in there. We forget that each leg different and this a factor in chosing

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    • #92
      Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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      • #93
        Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

        >Wow!simply amazing what we allow ourselves to believe. US Silver had to do with
        >fatigue and lack of practice more than anything else.

        I wholeheartedly agree with you re: US's lack of practice (as do most people).

        But "fatigue"..??! Let's take a look at the teams again:

        FRANCE:
        Girard - 3 rounds of the 100mH before the relay
        Hurtis - 4 rounds of the 200m before the relay
        Felix - 2 rounds of the 200m
        Arron - 4 rounds of the 100m

        US:
        Angela Williams - No individual event. Fresh for relay
        Chryste Gaines - No individual event. Fresh for relay
        Inger Miller - No individual event. Fresh for relay
        Torri Edwards - 4 rounds of 100m, 4 rounds of 200m

        The only athlete who could get away with using the "fatigue" excuse is Torri Ewards. But even then - the US (as a relay team) had a total of 8 rounds of individual events (all belonging to Torri). The French team had a total of 18 rounds!

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        • #94
          Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

          >Jon,

          You say:

          "I'm also a bit dubious about these 'baton factor' times.
          >Of the US team you used to determine the baton factor, only one of them (Jones)
          >is included in the 'dream team' relay (whereas the GDR team are exactly the
          >same)."

          That is simply not true. Sure, Jones is the only member of the
          >'real' US team (from 1997) and also in the fantasy team, but the same can only
          >be said for Göhr on the GDR team - she is the only member of the 'real' GDR WR
          >team (from 1985) and also in the corresponding fantasy team. Koch, Krabbe and
          >Wöckel have replaced Möller, Günther and Auerswald (respectively).

          Whoops - you're right. I was looking at the wrong team when I was quoting it in my post. I apologise.

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          • #95
            Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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            • #96
              Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

              Nope ... Not buying it ... This meet WAS a major championships for BOTH nations ... They did not get to meet in Moscow due to the boycott and knew they weren't going to meet in Los Angeles ... It was the first meeting between the two and it WAS a big deal !!! And I can tell you from being there that they took it as a big deal - on both sides .... There is NO mitigating this loss ... You just won't quit ... You fabricate every reason why the GDR would win a race and every reason why the US would fail ... And then when confronted with the reality that the GDR's best FAILED against one quarter of a potential US dream team you have the audacity to say that it was because the GDR didn't care and was just on holiday !!! Rob, give it a rest ... The US v the GDR was one of the biggest if not the biggest rivalries in track and field history ... From 1979 forward Ashford was kicking GDR ass and became their NUMBER ONE foe ... Ashford v Gohr, Ashford v Koch, Ashford v anyone from the GDR was a headline race ... Hell Krabbe v the US was STILL a big deal nearly a decade later !!! Sorry Rob ... No mitigating this race ... The GDR might have been on holiday when travelling to Britain or France or Switzlerland ... But they came to the US to kick Evelyn's ass ... And that 4x1 got run off the track ... So it shall be written .. So it shall be told !!!!

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              • #97
                Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                >Nope ... Not buying it ... This meet WAS a major championships for BOTH
                >nations ... They did not get to meet in Moscow due to the boycott and knew they
                >weren't going to meet in Los Angeles ...

                Hullo ! Ever heard of a meet called the World Championships ? There was one in 1983. And you're saying the East Germans took some dual meet more seriously than they did Helsinki ??? What am I missing here ?
                What does one race prove anyway ? I could just as well quote the results of the 1983 World Champs and the 1985 World Cup and claim that the GDR team was 2 seconds faster than the US. Puh-leeze !
                Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                • #98
                  Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                  You knew there was going to be a reply......Gwen& Marita you are talking dead heat on the lead off Marion has never had to chase anyone down the back but if so be for real(remember the Sydney anchor....9.56 if I'm correct)and Flo at 87 Rome when she blew the race wide open....hhhmmmmm.....oh and one more can i please recall to everyone Evelyn's fabulous 88 Seoul anchor coming from more than 3m back......Don't y ou just love fantasy relay racing....But remember though for a fantasy to be true u must always stick to the facts......Go USA

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                  • #99
                    Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                    Sticking to the facts, Ashford might have made up a lot of ground in Seoul, but she did it while racing an out-of-shape Gohr and a limping Soviet. Her split was 10.10 - very average by the usual anchor-running standards at this level of competition. If you're gonna make a case for Ashford as a great anchor runner, that race ain't the best supporting evidence.
                    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                    • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                      Evelyn's Seoul split was "only" 10.l0 becasue that is all she needed for the victory ... Now had she run that split and lost then you'd have something to talk about ... As for an out of shape Gohr, she kicked Gohr's ass on the anchor when she was in shape as well ...

                      And as for everyone suddenly wanting to say that the GDR coming to the US for a dual was NO BIG DEAL is not in touch with the history of the sport or is too young to remember ... Head to head duals (USSR v USA / GDR v USA were MAJOR deals at one time ... Remember that 1983 was the first Worlds and it HADN'T occured yet ... The only thing that truly existed was the Olympics (which were every 4 years) and the World Cup (in the beginning it WAS a big deal) ... There was STILL a COLD WAR going on ... And ANYTIME the US, USSR and/or GDR faced off it was for major bragging rights ... ANYTIME ... Many of you live in a world were the World Championships have always existed ... Where the wall has always been down ... Where the term Iron Curtain means little ... BUT in 1983 (when THAT race was held) East and West met very sparingly and ANYTIME they did it was a big deal ... That relay was a big deal ... The GDR took it as a big deal ... And their BEST lost to the US ... It WAS a big deal ...

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                      • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                        So... now you're saying the World Cup was a big deal, but the World Champs weren't ??? Would it have anything to do with the fact that the GDR won the gold in 1983 and the US didn't make the final ? :-P

                        Be that as it may, here are the women's 4x100 results from the early World Cups:

                        1977
                        1 Europe 42.51
                        2 GDR 42.65
                        3 Soviet Union 42.91
                        USA DQ
                        1979
                        1 Europe 42.19
                        2 GDR 42.32
                        3 Soviet Union 42.52
                        4 USA 43.53
                        1981
                        1 GDR 42.22
                        2 USA 42.82
                        3 Soviet Union 43.01
                        1985
                        1 GDR 41.37 WR
                        2 Soviet Union 42.54
                        3 Europe 43.38
                        5 USA 44.03

                        Out of the 4 'big-deal' competitions, GDR beat the US 4 times and on the 3 occasions both teams finished, the average margin was 1.53 seconds. I suppose the reason why you all remember the US beating the GDR in 83 so well is that it was such a rare occurence... :-D
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                        • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

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                          • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                            Conway, I stand by you all the way. I knew the communist propaganda machine way too well (see my post above). Each one of those meets was a HUGE deal to them (and to the entire Soviet block as well).
                            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                            by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                            • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                              Not taking sides in this debate, but the talk about how important '83 might have been reminded me of this post by "Brian" back in July (on a Slaney thread):

                              <<Before the first Worlds meet in 1983, there was only the Games every four years as any kind of world-scope championships. Under this international schedule, the Soviet distance runners were on a two-year training/racing/resting cycle as far as periodization. They were looking for their racing best on even numbered years, especially that fourth year when The Olympic Games, the Eastern Bloc system's propaganda bread and butter payoff, were held on the international stage for all to see.
                              When the first Worlds meet came about, many athletes and coaches were still a little hesitant about just how important a meet it would be, remembering the idea that the World Cup (started in the late seventies) was supposed to be designed to be a better world-scope championship than the Olympics but didn't amount to much in that respect. As such, many chose to not mortage the farm training and racing-wise for the unproven product, although most truly hoped the meet would be what it indeed turned out to be, that year and in years to come. Many western athletes did their usual "get sharp and race the circuit" plan, choosing the bird in the hand bucks and travel to the risk of the later benefit of "winning the big one," Olympic Games style (Viren).>>

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                              • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                                I was commenting on the last leg only as it was posted that we lost the race due to Aaron passing Torri. We did not have our strongest field on the track to compare the rest of the field fatigued or not.

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