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Women's 4x100 - US!

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  • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

    The first four posts on this thread should serve as caution to those of us who enjoy assigning medals prior to the race. Take a look back and see.
    ALSO:Flo-jo the fastest ever who ran the third leg=no brainer
    Flo-jo the best third leg ever= no chance!

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    • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

      First off, I said that the World Cup was a big deal in 1983 ... And only because it and the Olympics were all there were prior to then ... Rob and Powell need to understand the modus of the day before commenting ...

      The World Cup lost its lustre after 1983 becasue IT was no longer the OTHER meet aside from the Olympics ... The World CUp became meaningless ...

      And I am judging that both Rob and Powell were likely small children in 1983 as you understand none of the politics of the day ... Everyone knew that the EAstern Bloc was NOT going to participate in the Los Angeles games ... Retribution for 1980 was GOING to happen ... You are correct about the dates of formal announcement that the GDR was not going to participate ... But that was a forgone conclusion to an event that took place in 1980 - such was THE COLD WAR at the time ...

      As for Helkinki 1983, Ashford was injured before the meet and did not compete .. So no full strength US ... The squad they sent didn't even make the final !!!

      Zurich 84 .. The US women have NEVER fielded a national team at anything outside of a dual/World/Olympics ...

      85 World Cup ... Give me a break ... The US sent a patched up squad that only ran 44.03 !!! They didn't intend to compete !!!

      If you are going to try to talk facts, then tell the whole story !!! Let's fill in the gaps ...

      In the 1983 showdown with 3/4 of your GDR dream team the US won as I already stated ... The next time both squads met AT FULL STRENGTH was the 1987 World Championships (BIG ENOUGH MEET FOR YOU??) !!

      1987 Worlds 4x1 Women

      1. 41.58 USA - Brown - Williams - Joyner - Marshall
      2. 41.95 GDR - Moller - Oschkenat - Berendt - Gohr

      AGAIN the US prevails !!! And the GDR had sprint studs Moller and Gohr and hurdle stud Oschkenat !!!!

      Next opportunity for both to meet was the 1988 games where it has already been chronicled that Evelyn Ashford RAN DOWN Gohr for the 41.98 to 42.09 VICTORY ....

      So in THREE FULL SQUAD 4x1 encounters the US was THREE AND OH against the mighty GDR machine ...

      And by the way Rob, yes the US has produced a lot of fast sprinters but rarely have more than two gotten together healthy to go after the GDR record !!! THAT was the ONE advantage that the GDR had in setting their record ... They were able to get their BEST squad together to do so ...

      So, getting back to the history that you like to use selectively, the US stands 3-0 against the GDR in "healthy", "full squad" head to heads and I see no reason that the fantasy race would be any different since the firepower the US would bring to that race so exceeds what happened in the real world !!!!!

      Comment


      • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

        >Not taking sides in this debate, but the talk about how important '83 might
        >have been reminded me of this post by "Brian" back in July (on a Slaney
        >thread):

        <<Before the first Worlds meet in 1983, there was only the Games
        >every four years as any kind of world-scope championships. Under this
        >international schedule, the Soviet distance runners were on a two-year
        >training/racing/resting cycle as far as periodization. They were looking for
        >their racing best on even numbered years, especially that fourth year when The
        >Olympic Games, the Eastern Bloc system's propaganda bread and butter payoff,
        >were held on the international stage for all to see.
        When the first Worlds
        >meet came about, many athletes and coaches were still a little hesitant about
        >just how important a meet it would be, remembering the idea that the World Cup
        >(started in the late seventies) was supposed to be designed to be a better
        >world-scope championship than the Olympics but didn't amount to much in that
        >respect. As such, many chose to not mortage the farm training and racing-wise
        >for the unproven product, although most truly hoped the meet would be what it
        >indeed turned out to be, that year and in years to come. Many western athletes
        >did their usual "get sharp and race the circuit" plan, choosing the bird in
        >the hand bucks and travel to the risk of the later benefit of "winning the big
        >one," Olympic Games style (Viren).>>



        Thank you for that beautiful piece of history ... ;-)

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        • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

          ..

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          • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

            Now that you've have exhausted who won what meets and the reasons why, (communist ideology an all) .Please give me your version. with all these awesome squads that the Americans have put together throught the years why a world record from 1985 is still unbroken. It is obviously not a lack of speed. must be Rob's original suggestion disclipine which = "efficient relay exchanges" Then to break it should be a no brainer, just work on the exchanges, with all the great sprinters you have in America surely it is possible.

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            • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

              Was it only me who thought that in Seoul prior to pulling up on anchor the USSR looked like a likely winner in the woman's 4x100?

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              • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                In real estate, they say that 3 things are important, namely location, location, and location.

                In the 400 Relay, 3 things are also important, namely passing, passing, and passing.

                Obviously an exaggeration in both cases, but the point is made by the above statements.

                And there is a HUGE, repeat huge, difference between Bad passing, Adequate passing, Good passing, and Fabulous passing... like well over a full second or more.

                Comment


                • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                  to Sprity Jaguar
                  my exact sentiments and the Russians as i recall did not have a squad even close in matching speed as the Americans. did any Russian woman even made the 100m final?
                  must have been their great exchanges.

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                  • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                    To say that "The World Cup was a big deal in 1983" is NOT the same as saying there was a World Cup in 1983 ... The meet was considered to be a big deal when it was first initiated, and as of 1983 the Worlds had not been reality ... And if you will look at the quote that was supplied by another poster you will see the significance that the Worlds held as it had yet to be run when the 1983 dual ameet had taken place ...

                    As for the 83 Worlds Ashford WAS injured before the meet ... I should have said she didn't run the 100 final or any other race in the meet due to aggravating the injury during the 100 rounds ... Such was the rivalry that she attempted to run in the meet even though she had been injured prior ..

                    As for the 85 meet your sarcasm gets you little ... NO they didn't have anything better to do, NOR did they have the sprinters available to be competitive ... THAT is what was meant by they didn't intend to compete ... As in they knew when they showed up they would not be competitive in that environment .. However they were obligated to send a squad ...

                    And simply having gone to college during the period does not make one well versed in the Cold War ... As you are neither from the US or GDR there are many nuances of the period with which you would only have heard of second hand ...

                    As for Sabine NOT being one of the GDR's best, while she was NOT one of their headline sprinters she was a mainstay of their relay squads ... Figuring prominently on many national squads ... So from that standpoint she was one of their best and was fully integrated into their relay program !!!!

                    As far as me being selective, what is so selective about comparing healthy squads against healthy squads ??? The only wins that YOU can come up with are those in which the US was NOT at full strength ... THAT is history ... When BOTH competed against each other healthy the US prevailed each time ... THAT is history ... Yes the GDR won a few ... But ONLY against "weakened" US foursomes ... That is not being selective that is reporting ALL of the facts ...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                      >US will not win either of these 4x1 that is the Oly an World JR

                      The US can only defeat themselves. The passes need to be clean and everyone healthy, other than that, they should have no problems winning.

                      As far as World Junior, the biggest competitor for the US will be Jamaica. The US girls are still the favorites and they may even have a stronger team this year than last year.

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                      • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                        OLY= USA but Jamaica and France will be dangerous and have to be respected
                        WJR=USA and Jamaica just like Kingston '02
                        On paper US should win both but they will do it on Mondo

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                        • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                          ..

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                          • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                            >If you're gonna make a case for Ashford as a great anchor runner,
                            >that race ain't the best supporting evidence.



                            But her 9.77 split is.

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                            • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                              Bottom line ... All rhetroric aside .. You stated that the US would NEVER have a chance against the GDR's best ... You said that the US would falter, choke and fail in spite of their speed ... REALITY IS that the US has indeed beaten the GDR at their best on more than one occasion ... And pitting each countries 4 best against each other the US would have MORE than a favorable chance of coming out victorious !!! Especially given the extremely superior speed differential ...

                              On a side note ... For those who keep shiming in about the US's poor baton handling, THAT is a recent (last 10 years or so) phenomenon for the US women ... While the US MEN are notorious for their squabbles, lack of practice, and poor technique the women have been fairly solidover the years ... Their failings have come when inserting lesser talents into the mix over the past decade or so as putting together quality squads has seemingly become rather a challenge for the women ... Even so, the US women have run 41.47 (1997), 41.49 (1993), 41.52 (1997), 41.71 (2001), 41.83 (2003), and 41.96 (1996) with various and sundry squads ... My hypothetical foursome should obviously have little trouble cracking 41.00 ...

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                              • Re: Women's 4x100 - US!

                                ok,ok, ok.....

                                It's a draw !

                                2 intelligent guys have voiced their opinions and done it well, thank you.

                                The end.

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