Foot position in the blocks

[M50Decathlon]

At a better than 50:50 chance of demonstrating stupidity (once again), I have this recollection of seeing something about making sure that some part of the foot is in contact with the track surface while in starting blocks. But, I can't recall if I saw this in:

- a rule book
- a technique guide/clinic
- dream/stupor

Anyway, while watching a combined events meet this spring I noticed one of the competitors who, in the hurdles and the 200, was way up in the blocks, with toes maybe two inches off the track surface and up on the pedals. I was trying to figure out if this was illegal, dumb, brilliant, stylistic, or irrelevant.

Anyone help me on this one? And, if by any chance it is in the rules, where would I'd find it, 'cause when I did a really quick scan of IAAF, USATF, NCAA, and high school rules I didn't find anything.

[jla]

From the IAAF Competition rules (can be downloaded from the IAAF website at http://www.iaaf.org/newsfiles/23484.pdf)
Rule 162.4

After the "On your marks" command, an athlete shall approach the
start line, assume a position completely within his allocated lane and
behind the start line. Both hands and at least one knee shall be in
contact with the ground and both feet in contact with the starting
blocks. At the "Set" command, an athlete should immediately rise to
his final starting position retaining the contact of the hands with the
ground and of the feet with the foot plates of the blocks.

Thus your feet don't have to have any contact with the ground but they must have contact with the blocks.

[Twid]

I seem to remember seeing a similar rule, I think it might have been to do with block design such that the block must be designed to allow the some part of the foot to contact with the track.

However there's no reference to it in the appropriate IAAF rule ...
http://www.iaaf.org/newsfiles/9579.pdf

[tafnut]

We sometimes diddle with foot position in the blocks. The 'standard' was that the tip of the toe was just touching the track, but we found that placing the foot higher helped keep the runner lower in get-away (a good thing), except in the cases where they stumbled or even fell flat on their face (a bad thing). It seemed that the runners with 'stronger' (thicker thigh) legs benefitted more from a higher foot placement. Have there been any studies? When BJ 'jumped' out of his blocks, it seems as though he had to have a lower foot placement, yes/no/maybe so?

[lonewolf49]

MY coach taught high foot placement 50 years ago.. up to the point where you fell forward...
I was never aware there was such a rule but I have, in recent years, seen starters instruct a runner in the blocks that his toe must be in contact with the ground...
I thought maybe it was new rule.. or an obsolete or "old wives" rule such as getting out of the pit before the crossbar fell was a legal jump..

[Smoke]

Must be an old rule book.
Whenever you see an official touch a runners foot it is because his/her foot is not touching the track. Now if you can prove to me that there is no rule governing this, I would be much obliged. But as of right now, an athletes foot must be in contact with the ground and the block.

The block contact issue is one of considerable angst by the way. The way spike plates are made these days when many runners are on their marks their foot loses contact. The officials don't like this because it sets off the sensors. The problem is that when the runner moves his foot it changes his entire orientation with the block, which has an influence on his start and race...

[lonewolf49]

I just reviewed current HS, NCAA, USATF and IAAF rule books (even found an old TAC rule book). I cannot find any requirement or reference in any of them pertaining to toe being in contact with ground when runner is in starting blocks.
It may be a misunderstanding of the rule or a personal prejudice but an official touching a runners foot or requiring the foot to be in contact with the ground does not make it a rule.
If unchallenged, officials in every event frequently enforce rules that are not, and never were, in the books.

[jla]

Whenever you see an official touch a runners foot it is because his/her foot is not touching the track. Now if you can prove to me that there is no rule governing this, I would be much obliged. But as of right now, an athletes foot must be in contact with the ground and the block.

Please check back five messages above:
After the "On your marks" command, an athlete shall approach the
start line, assume a position completely within his allocated lane and
behind the start line. Both hands and at least one knee shall be in
contact with the ground and both feet in contact with the starting
blocks. At the "Set" command, an athlete should immediately rise to
his final starting position retaining the contact of the hands with the
ground and of the feet with the foot plates of the blocks.

This is a quote from the current IAAF rule, which has in this aspect remained unchanged for more than a decade. It is correct that there was an old rule demanding contact between feet and ground but that requisite was deleted from the IAAF rules long ago.
Since then it is only the hands (and one knee) that have to be in contact with the ground.

And there is absolutely no ambiguity in the rule either.

[bambam]

In 1979-80, I was in school at Northern Illinois, taking courses to get into medical school. The assistant track/field coach there was Ed Nuttycombe, who was also a decathlete. Ed was working on a master's thesis in Phys Ed and it dealt with foot position in the blocks. I was even one of his subjects, being timed in the 40 with my feet in various positions. Had to be one of the slower subjects. Ed later became head coach at Wisonsin although I am not certain if he still is. Don't know if he ever published on this but if he is lurking on this list, perhaps he can share his results.

[wineturtle]

A__In the T&F Rules and regs 1973 edition by Natn Fed of State H.S.Assn
Rule7-sec 1 art 7 "snip<>....each competitors feet must be low enough on the blocks so that they are in contact with the ground.<>"
B__IAAF Handbook '77-78 edition.Rule 162 Art 10"Whenstarting blocks are used,both feet and hands must be in contact with the ground when the competitor is in the set position.
C__UST&F Fed officials manual 1972-73 Part III Sec 1"The starter"para entitled<> Instructions<>"Starter will name the event,remind runners to have hands ,as well as relay batons if used ,behind the starting line and with toes of both shoes touching the track."<>

So at all levels some rules do/did require feet on ground....when the new editions/changes took place I DK/NS but this rule about keeping yourself earthbound is based on fact not old hives tales.
M50Deca (guessing on meaning of 50 here :lol: )most likely learned his rules in the early '70's when such a rule did exist in all levels of the sport.

BTW anyone aware of current NYC rules about registering starting pistols/blank guns? Thanks

[tandfman]

So at all levels some rules do/did require feet on ground....when the new editions/changes took place I DK/NS but this rule about keeping yourself earthbound is based on fact not old hives tales.

Is that what you get when you listen to bumblebees?

[wineturtle]

Barbed retort for PC attempt stings the sole! !!...drone on if you must..