Jordan Gray’s fight for a women’s decathlon

[polevaultpower]

https://onherturf.nbcsports.com/2020...wCfRaoa-5gmgv8

The false equivalency hiding in plain sight

[Atticus]

I'm all for it, but I know that the nay-sayers are focused on the expense of adding the PV. The simplest solution is to collocate the men and women at training facilities, but that won't work for all women.

[Conor Dary]

As we discussed elsewhere the pole vault is basically a American suburban event.

[Atticus]

As we discussed elsewhere the pole vault is basically a American suburban event.

Except for the fact that every world Decathlete pole vaults.
In the 2019 WA World List, there are 26 nations represented with at least one athlete over 7800 (59 athletes).

[Conor Dary]

Yes I'm sure lots of countries have a token pole vaulter or 2.

[18.99s]

Except for the fact that every world Decathlete pole vaults.

Boys and young men around the world have much greater access to the pole vault, and sports in general, than girls and young women. Title IX only exists in America.

In Jamaica, one of the most track & field-savvy countries in the world, the girls' pole vault doesn't exist at the high school level (unless there's a rare small meet I don't know about which has it).

In the 2019 WA World List, there are 26 nations represented with at least one athlete over 7800 (59 athletes).

Let's look at a more meaningful cutoff like 8100, the qualifying standard for the 2016 Olympics. Only 27 athletes from 15 nations did that.

[Atticus]

Yes I'm sure lots of countries have a token pole vaulter or 2.

Who just happen to be excellent Decathletes? If there's opportunity for the Dec-er to PV, there are plenty more who just PV.

[deca]

Good article. Can’t really swap out hep for dec - as you kick out all the women who are training for it. She (Jordan) will never make next level in hept - so dec is a good option for her.

What could be fun - is turn Dec into 3 separate events - Day 1, Day 2 - overall. Everyone has to do all of the events to compete, but you can get specialists. You also would get folks winning multiple medals like in gymnastics or swimming, which would raise profile of track....

[Grasshopper]

As we discussed elsewhere the pole vault is basically a American suburban event.

If women not having equal access to pole vault is the argument against the decathlon, why not eliminate the decathlon and have the men do the heptathlon? Why is it that women have to convert to the "men's" event in order to achieve equality rather than the other way around?

[18.99s]

If women not having equal access to pole vault is the argument against the decathlon, why not eliminate the decathlon and have the men do the heptathlon?

That's what I said they should do. Have both men and women do the heptathlon, and make it a one-day competition so it can be included in many more meets.

Why is it that women have to convert to the "men's" event in order to achieve equality rather than the other way around?

Exactly. Having the women convert to the men's format to reach equality has the implicit sexist assumption that the men's event is the superior one to which women should aspire, rather than vice versa or agreeing that they are equal as is.

In gymnastics all-around, men do 6 events while women do 4. I don't see any push to have women do 6 events to achieve equality. And elite female gymnasts are more famous (and probably make more money professionally) than elite male gymnasts.

[dukehjsteve]

I am " From the Old School" . Leave the Decathlon and the Heptathlon unchanged.

[polevaultpower]

If women not having equal access to pole vault is the argument against the decathlon, why not eliminate the decathlon and have the men do the heptathlon? Why is it that women have to convert to the "men's" event in order to achieve equality rather than the other way around?

Sure, let's just keep killing the sport's popularity with the casual fan who turns it on during the Olympics. Most of them think women already do the decathlon.

This isn't some token gesture toward equality that no one is asking for, like raising the hurdles or throwing heavier implements. Women WANT to do the decathlon and are denied the opportunity due to their gender.

[Conor Dary]

Sure, let's just keep killing the sport's popularity with the casual fan who turns it on during the Olympics. Most of them think women already do the decathlon.

This isn't some token gesture toward equality that no one is asking for, like raising the hurdles or throwing heavier implements. Women WANT to do the decathlon and are denied the opportunity due to their gender.

Which women are those? A lot of countries don't even have a pole vault pit. I spent a lot of time at various English secondary and universities and I never saw a pole vault pit outside of major stadiums like Crystal Palace.

Also the casual fan's interest in the sport is near zero even during Olympics.

[18.99s]

This isn't some token gesture toward equality that no one is asking for, like raising the hurdles or throwing heavier implements. Women WANT to do the decathlon and are denied the opportunity due to their gender.

No, it's because the women's decathlon would have the consequence of denying MORE women the opportunity of doing the heptathlon.

[polevaultpower]

No, it's because the women's decathlon would have the consequence of denying MORE women the opportunity of doing the heptathlon.

Then I hope you will be as outspoken for the men to stop doing the decathlon as you are opposed to the women doing it.