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Jordan Gray’s fight for a women’s decathlon

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    I'm not looking at any angle other than the gender equality one. T&F is one of the fairest sports in the world.
    Except for the pole vault, the event with the most inequality in the sport along both gender and socioeconomic lines.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
      If you actually believe that nonsense then why aren't you advocating the change to heptathlon for men, or do male decathletes not come from low income families or low income countries.
      In this thread and older threads I've repeatedly said I'd like to see both men and women do the heptathlon, as a one-day competition.

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      • #78
        For those who like World Records, that point may help sell the wDec. I don't see anyone topping 7291 anytime soon.

        The tradition of the mDec is a huge factor (for me) to not mess with it.

        I like the wDec. Much better test of all around ability.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by gh View Post
          devil's advocate question: what if the (great) majority of women don't want the change?
          Did they ask to change from the Pent to the Hep/ Were they asked. Yours is a good question, but the gender equity thing is valid too. Remember when the OG wouldn't allow women to run distance events? Sometimes you build it . . . and they will come.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Atticus View Post
            Did they ask to change from the Pent to the Hep/ Were they asked. Yours is a good question, but the gender equity thing is valid too. Remember when the OG wouldn't allow women to run distance events? Sometimes you build it . . . and they will come.
            Toni Minichiello, coach of Olympic heptathlon champion Jessica Ennis-Hill, says organisational difficulties - he refers to "bottle-necking" in the past in competitions with both men's and women's decathlon - and a lack of desire to expand from heptathlon's seven to decathlon's 10 events are reasons it is not popular.

            "I wouldn't be a supporter of it, not at this stage, but I would certainly support adding another track event, maybe the 100m, and making it eight events over two days," says Minichiello.
            "Every time women's decathlon has been raised by the International Association of Athletics Federations, there's been little support from athletes and organisers because of the logistics of putting it on. Budgeting and television also dictates a lot.

            https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/29242699


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            • #81
              Originally posted by gh View Post

              devil's advocate question: what if the (great) majority of women don't want the change?
              How can you ask female decathletes when there is no decathlon?

              By the time athletes are adults, and ready to weigh in on the conversation, your potential decathletes are either in the hep or in the pole vault and generally not in a position to make a career change. The pole vaulters who wish they could have tried a decathlon earlier in their career (for example, Stacy Dragila, Jenn Suhr, Sandi Morris, Chelsea Johnson) are generally going to advocate more strongly for it because they have nothing to lose. Heptathletes who want to see the event change at some point are less likely to be as vocal because they have every reason to fear World Athletics implementing it badly and harming their own career, plus the fear of upsetting other heptathletes.

              You really need to be asking the girls who are 12-15, but most probably lack the knowledge to really understand the question.

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              • #82
                While the Olympics have restrictions on the number of total athletes per sport, the World Championships do not.

                Worlds are two weeks long, and though the prime TV windows are more limited, the combined events are largely held outside the TV window, often in front of empty stadiums.

                Why can't we contest the women's hep and dec at Worlds?

                If your answer is, "because then the women would have more events than the men" I want you to think reallllllllyyyyy hard about that one...

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                  Did they ask to change from the Pent to the Hep/ Were they asked. Yours is a good question, but the gender equity thing is valid too. Remember when the OG wouldn't allow women to run distance events?
                  Suppose adding distance events meant taking away some field events or sprints?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by polevaultpower View Post

                    How can you ask female decathletes when there is no decathlon?

                    By the time athletes are adults, and ready to weigh in on the conversation, your potential decathletes are either in the hep or in the pole vault and generally not in a position to make a career change. The pole vaulters who wish they could have tried a decathlon earlier in their career (for example, Stacy Dragila, Jenn Suhr, Sandi Morris, Chelsea Johnson) are generally going to advocate more strongly for it because they have nothing to lose. Heptathletes who want to see the event change at some point are less likely to be as vocal because they have every reason to fear World Athletics implementing it badly and harming their own career, plus the fear of upsetting other heptathletes.

                    You really need to be asking the girls who are 12-15, but most probably lack the knowledge to really understand the question.
                    I agree with this ^^

                    You don't ask the current elite heptathlon women if they want to change, because of course the vast majority will say no (and it's not their decision, as realistically the time it takes to introduce the event, they will have retired by then) But you don't ask the younger generation either. This isn't something that should be posed as a question. The question should be: do you want to have equality in sport, and have the same opportunities as men? I doubt any girl or woman would say no, they don't want the same opportunities...

                    This then just becomes an issue of how you introduce the event the right way. It wont be easy, but it can be done gradually. It HAS to happen, it's ridiculous in this day and age there isn't equality in the sport.

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                    • #85
                      The 'bottle-necking' issue is partly resolved by the fact that WA/IAAF allowing the 2 days of field events in the women's dec to be reversed so that you don't have everyone doing PV and the 2 long throws on the same day.

                      Here in the UK, the national indoor heptathlon for senior and under 20 males occurs at the same meet. I think the under 20s do the PV on the first day and the HJ on the second to prevent 'bottle-necking'.

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                      • #86
                        The very fact that is used to be the Pent and now is the Hep is a tacit understanding that women simply can't handle 10 events, so let's make it easier for them.
                        If you agree, keep the Hep.

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                        • #87
                          Add the decathlon for women and keep the same events.

                          Add the heptathlon for men and change it so the events are picked randomly for each meet from a pool of all events. Preferably, the events are not picked until the day of the competition.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cooter Brown View Post
                            Add the decathlon for women and keep the same events.

                            [the meds wore off and the rest was gibberish]

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                              The very fact that is used to be the Pent and now is the Hep is a tacit understanding that women simply can't handle 10 events, so let's make it easier for them.
                              If you agree, keep the Hep.
                              Straight from the Avery Brundage school of thought

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                                Straight from the Avery Brundage school of thought
                                exactly my point.

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