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  • #76
    Originally posted by mungo man View Post
    My post wasn't in reference to drug testing in the NBA. Please re-read my post again carefully. I was referencing fines that happen when people don't do your job. In the NBA and NFL, attending practice is the most important part of your job. If you don't attend practice you get fined. In track, being tested is one of the most important aspects of the job. Therefore athletes should be sanctioned for the 1st offence.
    Showing up to practice is one thing, being available for testing at pre-specified locations for the other 18-20 hours* a day is another level of life intrusion which neither league imposes in frequency of testing or penalties. Until those leagues have similar testing requirements and penalties as elite T&F, comparisons to those leagues are irrelevant to this debate.


    *it's not just about the one-hour window; they also have to provide 24/7 whereabouts information (on a less granular level).

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    • #77
      If the testers only come a couple times a year they will never fail the Three Test rule. Top athletes are tested (much) more often than 'ordinary' very good athletes, so it is easier to hit the limit. Also, three times in 12 months is easier to hit then three times in a fixed (e.g., calendar) year.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
        Showing up to practice is one thing, being available for testing at pre-specified locations for the other 18-20 hours* a day is another level of life intrusion which neither league imposes in frequency of testing or penalties. Until those leagues have similar testing requirements and penalties as elite T&F, comparisons to those leagues are irrelevant to this debate.


        *it's not just about the one-hour window; they also have to provide 24/7 whereabouts information (on a less granular level).
        Every adult has something that is a massive intrusion on their lives. Whether it is a job, or school, taking care of elderly parents or something else. When you have a job, you are required to be somewhere 5 to 7 days a week and for most people 350 days a year

        Being tested is part of an athletes job. And they are being asked to make themselves available for testing 1,2 or 3 times a year for a one hour window. Many athletes are not even tested at all.
        And the testers are coming to them. They are not being asked to drive for several miles to find a tester.
        This is only slightly inconvenient for the athlete. Other people in life have much larger inconveniences.

        Testers are being asked to go find athletes in remote inconvenient places like a rice padi in India or a tent in the Saudi desert or a remote village in Uganda. Only for the athlete to give the tester a runaround. And this is acceptable in the current system. Apparently an athlete can do this 3 times with no sanctions?


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        • #79
          Apparently one athlete leaped out of a window when AIU testers showed up. I can't find the story now. If he wasn't seen escaping, he would have used an excuse like the "AM/PM" excuse or the family emergency excuse and he would have been allowed to skate because it was only his first violation.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by mungo man View Post

            [FONT=Calibri]Every adult has something that is a massive intrusion on their lives.
            I don't.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by mungo man View Post
              Every adult has something that is a massive intrusion on their lives. Whether it is a job, or school, taking care of elderly parents or something else. When you have a job, you are required to be somewhere 5 to 7 days a week and for most people 350 days a year
              But not 24/7/365. If testing windows were limited to training and competition hours, you might have a point. Otherwise you're comparing applies to orangutans.

              Being tested is part of an athletes job. And they are being asked to make themselves available for testing 1,2 or 3 times a year for a one hour window. Many athletes are not even tested at all.
              They have to make themselves available 365 days a year, and they can be tested more than 3 times in a year. And the majority of professional T&F athletes do that for less than $70K/year, unlike the NBA and NFL where the lowest-paid players make more than $800K/yr and $500K/yr respectively.
              Last edited by 18.99s; 11-19-2020, 09:19 PM.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by mungo man View Post

                ...
                Being tested is part of an athletes job. And they are being asked to make themselves available for testing 1,2 or 3 times a year for a one hour window. ....

                It's not at all uncommon for athletes to be fastest far more times than that. Squeaky-clean Emma Coburn had 11 out-of-competition tests in '17 (in addition to in-compettion tests).

                https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn/stat...umbers-2017%2F

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                • #83
                  From USADA's 2019 numbers:

                  Shelby Houlihan 15
                  Justin A Gatlin 13
                  Matthew Centrowitz 12
                  William Claye 12
                  Ajee Wilson 12
                  Tori Bowie 11
                  Christian Coleman 11
                  Amy E Cragg 11
                  Courtney Frerichs 11
                  Evan Jager 11
                  Lopez Lomong 11
                  Brittney Reese 11
                  Christopher Benard 10
                  Stephanie Bruce 10
                  Nicholas Christie 10
                  Sara Hall 10
                  Jordan Hasay 10
                  Molly Huddle 10
                  Stanley Kipkoech Kebenei 10
                  Hassan Mead 10
                  Galen G Rupp 10
                  Isaac Updike 10

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by gh View Post

                    It's not at all uncommon for athletes to be fastest far more times than that. Squeaky-clean Emma Coburn had 11 out-of-competition tests in '17 (in addition to in-compettion tests).

                    https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn/stat...umbers-2017%2F
                    Her New Balance contract alone is said to be between $375,000 and $500,000. Then she gets appearance fees, prize money, speaking fees and other endorsements. Don't you think the eleven tests are worth it?

                    Secondly being tested 11 times is a badge of honor for an athlete. She can post it on twitter and use this info to convince sponsors that she is clean and get even more sponsors.
                    Last edited by mungo man; 11-20-2020, 03:18 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                      But not 24/7/365. If testing windows were limited to training and competition hours, you might have a point. Otherwise you're comparing applies to orangutans.


                      They have to make themselves available 365 days a year, and they can be tested more than 3 times in a year. And the majority of professional T&F athletes do that for less than $70K/year, unlike the NBA and NFL where the lowest-paid players make more than $800K/yr and $500K/yr respectively.
                      @18..99
                      Where are you getting this 24/7/365 business ?

                      In reading the AIU website, testing can only happen between 5 am and 11pm.
                      Secondly, the athlete gets to choose the one hour window. Its not like the tester can just show up anytime he wants. This is done at the convenience of the athlete. And if the tester does not appear during the one hour window, the athlete can refuse the test.
                      Thirdly , the tester comes to the athlete. Basically the athlete can just sit at home surfing cable and wait for the tester.

                      How is any of this inconvenient ?

                      Many people have jobs that have them commuting for 1 hour to work. Then meeting several clients all day, meeting after meeting after meeting, hustling across town to meet clients using an uber. Then have to commute back home for an hour by train. Then when they get home, they have to write reports to hand in to the manager the next day.

                      And they do it for less than track athletes make.

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                      • #86
                        You're the one who said 1, 2 or 3 times a year, mungo man

                        So it's 18/7/365 instead of 24/7/365. You make a whole lot of assumptions and sweeping generalizations, but that's fine... we are all entitled to an opinion here.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by mungo man View Post

                          And they do it for less than track athletes make.
                          Most TnF athletes eligible for testing make sweet stuff all; and especially if they deduct legitimate expenses

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                          • #88
                            Some posters seem to think TF athletes are pampered . I think very few are. Most have several balls to juggle from time to time: financial constraints, injuries, travel complications, training time demands, weather restrictions, COVID, family responsibilities, drug testing etc. Put yourselves in their shoes. (no pun intended!) I am surprised by the volume of testing they can be subjected to deal with! Seems like overkill. Do all countries do this? One would think that Coleman might be given a little leeway since he had 11 good tests in 2019. I admittedly know very little about drugs. My competitive era was long before drugs were a factor.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by gm View Post
                              You're the one who said 1, 2 or 3 times a year, mungo man

                              So it's 18/7/365 instead of 24/7/365. You make a whole lot of assumptions and sweeping generalizations, but that's fine... we are all entitled to an opinion here.
                              Where are you getting 18/7/365 from?

                              The 18 is actually 1 because athletes are supposed to be available for a 1 hour window out of 24

                              The 7 and 365 are actually close to zero. Take Emma Coburn for example. I am told she was tested 11 times in a year. So she had to make herself available for 11 days out of 365.
                              So for Emma Coburn, the number is NOT 18/7/365. It is 1/0.2/0.03
                              For lesser athletes its closer to 1/0.1/0.01

                              When you say 18 you make it look like an athlete is inconvenienced for 18 hours a day which is flat out wrong. An athlete can spend 10 minutes a day updating their device to indicate where they will be. Then they can go about their day as usual and its up to the tester to find them at the appropriate location. And on most days, there is no testing.

                              Even for Emma Coburn, she had 354 free days out of 365. Which means 96% of her days are test free. So the 365 number being pushed around here is far more reality.

                              I am sticking to my number of 1,2 or 3 tests a year. Based on past observation of data, most athletes aren't tested more then 3 times a year. Its the top athletes who get tested often.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by mungo man View Post
                                Take Emma Coburn for example. I am told she was tested 11 times in a year. So she had to make herself available for 11 days out of 365.
                                ??!!
                                She doesn't get to pick which 11 days those are, does she? They do. So, yeah, she on 24/7/365, minus sleep (and they only give her 6 hours there).

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