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  • Originally posted by trackfieldfan View Post

    Kuortane, FIN:
    70,35 WU23R NR

    Ståhl wins with 70,55.
    if you can throw over 70 at 22 doesn't that prove the u23 thing is nonsensical?

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    • Originally posted by toenail View Post

      if you can throw over 70 at 22 doesn't that prove the u23 thing is nonsensical?
      www.alltime-athletics.com lists 1,380 throws at 67.00 or better made by 122 different athletes. Only 10 of those athletes or 8.25% were U-23 athletes and they hit that mark only 25 times or 1.8% of the total times. The athletes are in the following table:

      Athletes U-23 67m throws
      Wolfgang Schmidt 6
      Kristjan Ceh 6
      Lawrence Okoye 3
      Ehsan Hadadi 2
      Julian Wruck 2
      Yuriy Dumchev 2
      Traves Smikle 1
      Fedrick Dacres 1
      Georgiy Kolnootchenko 1
      Sam Mattis 1

      So Ceh is an extreme outlier, like Schmidt, not a representation of the usual standard of U-23 athletes who, on average, have been, and will always be, uncompetitive against elite older throwers.

      One very good U-23 athlete does not invalidate the age category, just like the occasional exceptional U-20 athlete doesn't invalidate that category.


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      • Originally posted by ItalianFan View Post
        Italian Champs

        [..]
        Men 100: Jacobs 10.01
        Notably Jacobs into -1.0 headwind.
        Looks like an olympic finalist.

        Comment


        • Slight upset in the NED w200m, with Samuel winning in 22.93 ahead of Klaver 23.04. Tasa Jiya ran a great 23.14 for 3rd, and Bol once again ran a PB of 23.16 for 4th.

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          • Originally posted by El Toro View Post

            www.alltime-athletics.com lists 1,380 throws at 67.00 or better made by 122 different athletes. Only 10 of those athletes or 8.25% were U-23 athletes and they hit that mark only 25 times or 1.8% of the total times.

            U-23 athletes have been, and will always be, uncompetitive against elite older throwers.
            I hear you but they have much less of them in part because of more limited time (olds can throw 67+ for two decades after turning 23) and I'd say discus isn't popular so many guys don't specialize really young. It's logical there's few examples of great young throwers since you need years of preparation of physical and especially technical part. What if they all started at 10? Of course more time spent in the sector will always be better but I'd guess there'd be more 68-70m youngsters and some of them would take medals from old people.
            btw there was a ukrainian guy nesterenko that already threw over 65 at 17 which seems even more unlikely to me than čeh
            Last edited by toenail; 06-27-2021, 04:52 PM.

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            • Some results from last day of Italian Champs

              Women
              200: Kaddari 22.89
              1500: Battocletti 4.09.38 Zanoni 4.09.79
              400hs: Marchiando 55.16 Olivieri 55.54 Pedroso 55.79 Folorunso 56.05. * Marchiando achieved the Olympic standard. Olivieri was well-placed in the ranking but there are 3 with the big Q (Pedroso and Folorunso using 2019 times).
              Triple: Derkach 14.47 (+0.5)
              High: Fassinotti 2.26 (Sottile still struggling with 2.20)

              Men
              200: Desalu 20.38 Infantino 20.96
              400hs: Sibilio 48.96
              3000sh: Ala Zoghlami 8:17.65 Chiappinelli 8:25.32. Same situation as in the women 400hs. 2 guys already had the standards (Osama Zoghlami and Abdelwahed). Chiappienlli was in a good position in the ranking. But Zoghlami who was behind him got the standard today and will get the third ticket to OG.
              Triple: Bocchi 17.14
              Last edited by ItalianFan; 06-27-2021, 09:59 PM.

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              • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                Ryuji Miura 8.17.46. (NR) The previous record was 8.18.93 in 2003.
                Another NR for Miura with 8:15.99. He tripped over a water jump with 2+ laps to go, got passed by two runners, stormed to regain the lead and never slowed down to the finish.
                And this guy is only 19.

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                • SMU with 22.18 at her champs.

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                  • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                    SMU with 22.18 at her champs.
                    Race video: https://youtu.be/6y-YVZeAsg0

                    I know this may not look great following Thomas/Prandini/SAFP/Jackson/ETH, but I think this bodes very well for her. This wasn't perfect conditions like Eugene or with any competition like Kingston. And she is coming off the 400m yesterday. I think she will still be in the mix for gold.

                    But honestly, based on the Tokyo schedule, I think she should double. The 400m seems like a relative "walk in the park" so even if she misses a win in the 200m, she has more than enough rest between the 400m semis and then finals. (all pending Naser status)

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                    • Anyone want to venture to guess what Warhorse will run in his opener this July 1st? We will get some idea of where he is at in relation Rai. I like going out on limbs lately so I'm going to say he beats 46.83 and gets the WR. This will be fun!

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                      • Maybe this is here somewhere on the forums, but when is the last date for qualifying marks for the olympics? Is it up to when it starts? A few of the athletes I follow haven't met the qualifying mark but are in the top 32. ( Emmanuel Karalis for isntance)

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                        • Originally posted by Jshapco2 View Post
                          Maybe this is here somewhere on the forums, but when is the last date for qualifying marks for the olympics? Is it up to when it starts?
                          29 June.

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                          • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

                            29 June.
                            and was May 31 for marathon and 50W

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                            • Originally posted by toenail View Post
                              I hear you but they have much less of them in part because of more limited time (olds can throw 67+ for two decades after turning 23)
                              Discus does have a longer tail than other throws but even if you look at it year by year, it's easy to see that U-23 athletes can't hit the big distances on a regular basis as well as throwers just a little bit older. The data is pretty similar for all events with just modest variations in peak performance years. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29543080/

                              Here's the same data for percentage of 67m discus throws by age at the end of the year.
                              Age DT_%
                              20 0.1%
                              21 0.4%
                              22 1.3%
                              23 2.0%
                              24 4.0%
                              25 6.7%
                              26 11.2%
                              27 12.2%
                              28 14.4%
                              29 10.9%
                              30 9.0%
                              31 4.9%
                              32 5.0%
                              33 4.9%
                              34 4.2%
                              35 2.7%
                              36 1.7%
                              37 1.4%
                              38 1.4%
                              39 0.8%
                              40 0.5%
                              43 0.1%
                              44 0.1%
                              45 0.1%
                              47 0.1%
                              Total 100.0%

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by El Toro View Post

                                Discus does have a longer tail than other throws but even if you look at it year by year, it's easy to see that U-23 athletes can't hit the big distances on a regular basis as well as throwers just a little bit older. The data is pretty similar for all events with just modest variations in peak performance years.
                                Imo it's that they don't rather than can't, speaking of just the distance. To do it regularly, yes, experience helps. If it was a more popular event it would attract more talents and they'd specialize from a younger age, then achieve more sooner.

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