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The Most Complicated Disciplines in Athletics?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post

    Bolt's throw = javelin thrower running 10.6 and proving how easy it is to be world class, when a non-specialist is only 1 second behind Bolt.

    Yego coached himself to mid-70m throws only - a long way from world class. After that he got a scholarship to train with Petterie Piironen in Kuortane as did Ihab Abdelrahman El Sayed from Egypt. It was this coaching expertise that really moved them to world class, not fucking youtube. But the truth is not really an exciting story about the internet for the gullible.

    how far did that Jav go? Didn’t look anywhere near to the equivalent of a 10.6. Looked like 50m to me maybe? I’ve seen guys get over 4m first time out in PV as well. My vote goes to PV.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by deca View Post
      how far did that Jav go? Didn’t look anywhere near to the equivalent of a 10.6. Looked like 50m to me maybe? I’ve seen guys get over 4m first time out in PV as well. My vote goes to PV.
      Bolt threw 56m according to one report but I didn't look to see if they measured cm. Anyway, using the individual event tables (not dec points), a 56.00m throw is worth 761 points. Other equivalent events are:

      100 - 11.44 , so yeah, nothing like equivalent to a 10.6 (10.84e) but hey, I'm a generous guy!
      400 - 51.69
      HJ - 1.82m
      PV - 4.13m
      LJ - 6.24m
      TJ - 13.15m
      SP - 13.94m
      DT - 43.63m
      HT - 51.74m
      JT - 55.96m
      Decathlon 5601

      I used the online calculator at https://scoringtablescalculator.com/calculator/ as it produces both indoor and outdoor equivalents across all events.

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      • #48
        We've had beginners excel in the 100, the HJ, the LJ, and the SP, but no other events w/o training.

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        • #49
          Along this line of thought, considering the pandemic, allow me to ask another question: which discipline is the most de-training-resistant, that despite a period of lay-off the skills and ability of its athletes would still largely be retained? I'd guess the worst should be distance running, but I can be wrong.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by gh View Post
            world-class walkers do an admirable job of fulfilling this requirement.
            Though I would guess that race-walks have the highest percentage of athletes disqualified in a world/Olympic championship event compared to any other discipline.

            Therefore proving how 'complicated' it is to achieve proficiency.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

              Though I would guess that race-walks have the highest percentage of athletes disqualified in a world/Olympic championship event compared to any other discipline.

              Therefore proving how 'complicated' it is to achieve proficiency.
              Or how unnatural it it is to make yourself walk like that - about as fun as constipation.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by xw View Post
                Along this line of thought, considering the pandemic, allow me to ask another question: which discipline is the most de-training-resistant, that despite a period of lay-off the skills and ability of its athletes would still largely be retained? I'd guess the worst should be distance running, but I can be wrong.
                I don't think you are wrong in this case.

                As far as I know, the aerobic system is the most trainable, so it seems reasonable that it's impacted the most by complete inactivity. Restricted training might be a different matter though.

                Also, as a further consideration, which events could recover the quickest to pre-detraining standard?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by El Toro View Post

                  I don't think you are wrong in this case.

                  As far as I know, the aerobic system is the most trainable, so it seems reasonable that it's impacted the most by complete inactivity. Restricted training might be a different matter though.

                  Also, as a further consideration, which events could recover the quickest to pre-detraining standard?
                  From my experience after taking 10 years off from track and then starting again as a Master’s athlete,

                  1. Throws came back most quickly
                  2. Then hurdles
                  3. Then sprints
                  4. Then jumps (in this order: LJ - HJ - PV)
                  5. Distance was avoided at all costs!



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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by gh View Post

                    not true. WA 230, 54.2 (bf mine):

                    <<Race Walking is a progression of steps so taken that the

                    walker makes contact with the ground, so that no visible (to

                    the human eye) loss of contact occurs
                    .>>

                    world-class walkers do an admirable job of fulfilling this requirement.
                    Indeed.

                    And to further the understanding of RW a little more ...

                    Studies have found that even the most highly-trained and experienced of international race walking judges cannot reliably or consistently perceive a "flight time" (loss of contact) that lasts less than 0.045 seconds (i.e., 4-and-a half hundredths).

                    So, there is room within the rules for very brief loss of contact and the vast majority of race walkers in any given race will comply with these contact rules. When they don't it's generally not because they're attempting to cheat but because they're pushing the limits a bit too much or their technique has broken down through fatigue.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by deca View Post
                      From my experience after taking 10 years off from track and then starting again as a Master’s athlete,
                      1. Throws came back most quickly
                      2. Then hurdles
                      3. Then sprints
                      4. Then jumps (in this order: LJ - HJ - PV)
                      5. Distance was avoided at all costs!
                      Interesting, When I started Masters at 40, I found that

                      1. I was BETTER at the SP (because I could bench more).
                      2. My 100 speed had suffered the most (just aging).
                      3. My HJ started off low, but I got reasonably close to my PR.
                      4. My hurdle form was right on, but the 100 speed-loss hurt and I had to really focus to 3-step.
                      5. PV started off roughly, but I eventually PRed due to technical improvement from coaching it.
                      6. LJ suffered from lack of speed but was fine.
                      7. Anything over 200 was pathetic. Training helped but was quickly lost during any down-time,

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                        Interesting, When I started Masters at 40, I found that

                        1. I was BETTER at the SP (because I could bench more).
                        2. My 100 speed had suffered the most (just aging).
                        3. My HJ started off low, but I got reasonably close to my PR.
                        4. My hurdle form was right on, but the 100 speed-loss hurt and I had to really focus to 3-step.
                        5. PV started off roughly, but I eventually PRed due to technical improvement from coaching it.
                        6. LJ suffered from lack of speed but was fine.
                        7. Anything over 200 was pathetic. Training helped but was quickly lost during any down-time,
                        So not wildly different themes - just order within events (I also didn’t have chance to practice HJ or PV outside of meets). I’m thinking about getting back at it again after another 5 or so years away (blew out knee high jumping in 2015). Have still thrown Shot and Discus a few times a year, run easy tempo maybe 10x a year, and lifting is in shape to levels pre patellar tendon rupture.

                        I weigh about 10# more though, which will make a real difference in jumps and runs.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by El Toro View Post

                          I don't think you are wrong in this case.

                          As far as I know, the aerobic system is the most trainable, so it seems reasonable that it's impacted the most by complete inactivity. Restricted training might be a different matter though.

                          Also, as a further consideration, which events could recover the quickest to pre-detraining standard?
                          Fortunately for distance runners they need a track less than other T&F athletes.

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