2021 multi-event

[olorin]

Jack Flood was off my radar as well olorin. I only knew of him after reading this week's Deca Newsletter ([URL] Depth-wise, the decathlon at the Trials will be really good.

A bit of a understatement.
So far, seven decathletes score above 8000 {GS; H. Williams; ZZ, Garland, Bastien, Flood, Hunter}
There are four athletes that score 8K+ in 2019 (DW, Simmons, Filip & Ehrhardt)
Add one or two collegiate that can do it at the NCAA, and a possible surprise and I think that we likely to have at dozen or so decathletes at the yearend.
The record so far is 8 2008 (WA)
The top end is still relatively weak, but hopefully this depth will lead to a breakthrough or two.

[deca]

Thanks GH, so in all likelihood a conscious decision by Kyprianou.

Speaking of American trials someone just notify me of this new member of the 8,000 club.
https://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/6125231/Jack_Flood.html

I have to say I never heard about him before and seems like a huge miss of the big powerhouses as he was competing in NCAA-III.
He is currently training at AthleticLab (Mike Young) and seems like their best athlete (couldn't find a list of their current athletes)
Good thrower and HJ and with an improvement in the PV and running events can be competitive for the next Olympic cycle.
Can anyone (Mike?) provide further details?

I don't know Flood or of him, but Mike is an outstanding coach, and one of the best on technical fundamentals, as well as full-year training programming that I've ever come across. His facilities are also incredible.

[ZazaShoya]

Entries for Götzis https://meeting-goetzis.at/meeting/starterfeld
Great fields, the three medallists from Doha are here in the Dec, along with dark horses for Tokyo and some promising young athletes. Of course no Thiam/KJT but several candidates for the medals in Japan. No US men but a strong women contingent,no Ikauniece either and sadly not even one Austrian athlete, especially in the Siebenkampf.

Mayer will be in Montpellier at the same time, with each and every multi-event French athlete (barring those in Austria) and Darko Pešić, who really could break the 8000 barrier giving his winter progresses. Mayer probably competing in four of five disciplines. I'd like to see him doing HJ, which he doesn't compete in often.

[miketandf]

Entries for Götzis https://meeting-goetzis.at/meeting/starterfeld
Great fields, the three medallists from Doha are here in the Dec, along with dark horses for Tokyo and some promising young athletes. Of course no Thiam/KJT but several candidates for the medals in Japan. No US men but a strong women contingent,no Ikauniece either and sadly not even one Austrian athlete, especially in the Siebenkampf.

Mayer will be in Montpellier at the same time, with each and every multi-event French athlete (barring those in Austria) and Darko Pešić, who really could break the 8000 barrier giving his winter progresses. Mayer probably competing in four of five disciplines. I'd like to see him doing HJ, which he doesn't compete in often.

Of the men competing that do not have the Q, how many 8350's do you think we could see from these guys... 15 of 24 auto-Q slots already filled, only 9 left...
Do you expect any new Q's on the women's side?

BTW... gh set up a separate "Gotzis multis" for this year, and I look forward to your comments there...
https://forum.trackandfieldnews.com/...%B6tzis-multis

[ZazaShoya]

Also Jorge Urena was competing in his national combined events championships this past weekend and he has been very unlucky. He was on pace for an auto-Q after the discus then the weather made the dream a nightmare, PV resuming around 7pm where he could only score 4.60, it was over. The decathlon ended around 11pm !

[miketandf]

Also Jorge Urena was competing in his national combined events championships this past weekend and he has been very unlucky. He was on pace for an auto-Q after the discus then the weather made the dream a nightmare, PV resuming around 7pm where he could only score 4.60, it was over. The decathlon ended around 11pm !

I was wondering why his name was not on Gotzis start list - he's ranked pretty high...
...and yes, that unlucky weather scenario, especially on day 2, is always a concern, especially for those looking for a certain number (e.g. Q)...

[ZazaShoya]

I was wondering why his name was not on Gotzis start list - he's ranked pretty high...
...and yes, that unlucky weather scenario, especially on day 2, is always a concern, especially for those looking for a certain number (e.g. Q)...

Good result though as he will score enough points to climb up to the 17th spot in the rankings after this. Not safe for now, but not far from it.

[olorin]

Also Jorge Urena was competing in his national combined events championships this past weekend and he has been very unlucky. He was on pace for an auto-Q after the discus then the weather made the dream a nightmare, PV resuming around 7pm where he could only score 4.60, it was over. The decathlon ended around 11pm !

Which is a likely explanations why three of the American chasers decided to compete in Gotzis rather than relying on the gods of weather to smile at them in Eugene (which they rarely do).

[miketandf]

According to a WA calendar search (see below), I assume the CE portion of the Trials is in the 'GL' category, not 'B' as is the rest of the meet? So, in terms of multi-folks who do well in Eugene w/o getting the Q, these extra place points could certainly help. For example, if ZZ beats SS and finishes 3rd at the OTs with a score of 'only' 8100 (Q=8350), he effectively would be in a reasonably comfortable spot (currently, slot 17 of 24) in the Road-to-Tokyo rankings. Yet, if it were a 'B' category meet, there's a chance ZZ could be on the outside looking in. The difference in 'GL' vs 'B' place points are as follows: 1st place: 110 vs 60 = 50 difference, 2nd place: 90 vs 50 = 40, 3rd place: 75 vs 45 = 30, etc. Note: 30-50 extra ranking points is like adding 200-300 points to a deca score.

Can any confirm the multis at the OT's are in fact, a 'GL' category meet?

Either way, the Ratingen meet and the men's US Oly Trials take place on the same days (June 19-20), so that will add to the level of excitement for those looking to get to Tokyo based on a non-Q qualifying spot.

WA-CE-Challenge.jpg

[olorin]

According to my understanding (trust the IAAF to make things as complicated as possible):.
All Combined Events Challenges are ranked as "GL"
https://www.worldathletics.org/world...ombined-events
And
The US Olympic trials are counted as Combined Events Challenges
https://www.worldathletics.org/compe.../calendar/2021

Of course, this is the opposite to the list that they post in mike's snapshot and I guess that the US trials count as "B" except for multi-events.

If the multi-trials are indeed ranked as "B" it is really unfair to US multi-eventers that will be in a huge disadvantage compared with the others. The men are likely to be OK, but it can prevent the likes of Kunz or Brooks to qualify to Tokyo.

[olorin]

Once a year, during the NCAA-II finals, I look at the multi-events results to find hidden talents.

On the men side Sam Black (Saginaw Valley) is leading with a good score of 4132 point after the first day. Black could have been a potential as he is very quick but have a PB of only 7.07 in the LJ. Add to this a very poor PV (4.35) and we can easily predict that he could have become a 8000 points competitor if he was with one of the main program in division one. Unfortunately, Black is a senior and most likely will not be mentioned again on these boards.

However on the women side Cheyenne Williamson from the same school is FR and have a score of 3,500 points after the first day on her way to ~5750 points. She is fast (23.73) and good long jumper (6.35). Her weakness is the throws with 11.60 & 31.03(!). I have no doubt that in one of the large schools she can become a 6000+ heptathletes.

[gm]

I don’t think that is fair to the coaches at Division II schools at all.

[Atticus]

I don’t think that is fair to the coaches at Division II schools at all.

Who are also not getting the Blue-Chip recruits.

[olorin]

I don’t think that is fair to the coaches at Division II schools at all.

So you think that an athletes' success is not related to the division he is competing in?
I think that coaching someone like Black or Williamson to results that will be competitive in the NCAA-I is a major achievement giving the lack of resources and the selection bias. Furthermore, the competition in NCAA-I is obviously more intense requiring the athletes to push themselves even harder to succeed. I really find it hard to believe that someone as knowledgeable as you arguing that Black/Williamson will not do better if they were competing for Georgia/Oregon/Arkansas and so on.

[gm]

So you think that an athletes' success is not related to the division he is competing in?
I think that coaching someone like Black or Williamson to results that will be competitive in the NCAA-I is a major achievement giving the lack of resources and the selection bias. Furthermore, the competition in NCAA-I is obviously more intense requiring the athletes to push themselves even harder to succeed. I really find it hard to believe that someone as knowledgeable as you arguing that Black/Williamson will not do better if they were competing for Georgia/Oregon/Arkansas and so on.

I have coached podium athletes at all three NCAA levels (I, II & III), and in my experience there are great coaches at all three levels. As our friend Atticus mentioned, D2 & D3 don't generally get the blue chip recruits that the "big" schools get, so any elite performers that come out of those places are the product of excellent coaching. Look at someone like Al Carius at North Central College (D3). His distance program through the years has been awesome, and I would wager that those kids wouldn't have done any better at a "big" school. In fact, they might not have done as well.

Development in the collegiate system in the U.S. is dependent upon so many variables, you can't just say that an athlete would automatically do better at one of the elite schools.