Tokyo women's 4x4 [split]

[1.609]

Is there anyone who would leave Mu and McLaughlin off the Tokyo 4x400, especially if they both perform spectacularly there?

[RunningInCircles]

Is there anyone who would leave Mu and McLaughlin off the Tokyo 4x400, especially if they both perform spectacularly there?

Yes. I think it's hard to justify kicking one of the top three 400 finishers at the Olympic Trials out of the final of the Olympic 4x400, unless they run poorly at the Olympics.

The bigger question is whether or not Kendall Ellis will be in the 4x400 final.

I think the women's 4x400 in the final will be the top 3 finishers from the trials, and then a last minute coaches decision the day before the final as to who the 4th runner will be. (Mostly likely either Ellis, McLaughlin, or Mu.)

[Atticus]

McL and Mu (right now) are gimmes. That leaves Hayes and Felix.

[1.609]

McL and Mu (right now) are gimmes. That leaves Hayes and Felix.

Wouldn't it be a uniquely fascinating event if the 2 fastest legs were from the 800 and 400 hurdles champions? Kinda like having your 110/100 hurdles champ and 200 winner the backbone of your winning 4x100.

[dpasv]

Any combination of athletes should get the job done. Though I don’t see a WR without an otherworldly pop-off carry and some strong company (a la ‘88) throughout the legs.

Where might the sub-48s come from given a complete separation from the competition after the initial exchange?

[ATK]

the 2012 women's 4x4 team was the most recent chance for a serious shot at the WR, but even then all 4 of them "underperformed" what they were capable of.

McLaughlin and Mu are a good 1-2 punch as they can split 48.x but they would need 48 low. After that it's pretty impossible as there aren't 2 other athletes capable of 49 low/48 high on the relay right now.

[dpasv]

the 2012 women's 4x4 team was the most recent chance for a serious shot at the WR, but even then all 4 of them "underperformed" what they were capable of.

McLaughlin and Mu are a good 1-2 punch as they can split 48.x but they would need 48 low. After that it's pretty impossible as there aren't 2 other athletes capable of 49 low/48 high on the relay right now.

So for today, what time would you give them?

[gh]

every OG/WC we get women's 4x4 WR talk, and every time I point out the numbers just aren't' there.

Remember how awesome the U.S. team was in Doha in '19?

Each of those runners would have to go 0.94 faster to break the WR.

[dpasv]

Thought the same about ‘09 Berlin...with the talk and all. I simply haven’t seen it going at it alone!

However, for the sake of conversation, break days and all...

[ATK]

So for today, what time would you give them?

I expect to see 3:18 mid to high. I would be pleasantly surprised to see them break into the top 10 all time (3:18.29) but doubt it.

[Atticus]

the 2012 women's 4x4 team was the most recent chance for a serious shot at the WR, but even then all 4 of them "underperformed" what they were capable of.

I had to look it up to remind myself of the WR splits

Soviet Union

Ledovs 50.1
Nazarova 47.9
Pinigina 49.3
Bryzgina 47.9

So odd that Russia and their old SSRs don't even have one 400m runner that could make that team from 33 years ago.

Even a World All-Star team in hot new shoes couldn't touch that record today. Given the usual 0.7 conversion for relay legs, you'd need 4 people who, on THAT day, could, out of the blocks, average . . . 49.3. Good luck.

[RunningInCircles]

every OG/WC we get women's 4x4 WR talk, and every time I point out the numbers just aren't' there.

Remember how awesome the U.S. team was in Doha in '19?

Each of those runners would have to go 0.94 faster to break the WR.

The only way the women's world record in the 4x400 gets broken is if you magically had peak Richards-Ross, peak Felix, peak McLaughlin, and peak Mu all running in the same race. Since a time machine hasn't been invented yet, the world record from 1988 is probably going to be around for a while.

Even in 2024, when we should have McLaughlin and Mu in top shape in their early/mid 20s, we would still have to come up with 2 other amazing runners. And I don't see any 400 runners in high school or college right now that I think will be able to run fast enough by 2024 to break the world record.

[ATK]

I had to look it up to remind myself of the WR splits

Soviet Union

Ledovs 50.1
Nazarova 47.9
Pinigina 49.3
Bryzgina 47.9

So odd that Russia and their old SSRs don't even have one 400m runner that could make that team from 33 years ago.

Even a World All-Star team in hot new shoes couldn't touch that record today. Given the usual 0.7 conversion for relay legs, you'd need 4 people who, on THAT day, could, out of the blocks, average . . . 49.3. Good luck.

Thats why I say 2012 had a "chance". This could have been a realistic run:

Trotter 49.7
Felix 48.0
McCorrory 49.3
SRR 48.4

Those are all times they were either capable of at that meet (Trotter/McCorry) or had split in the past (Felix/SRR). I think that misses the WR but breaks the AR. But thats not how reality works as everything would have had to have been perfect on that single day.

[booond]

I had to look it up to remind myself of the WR splits

Soviet Union

Ledovs 50.1
Nazarova 47.9
Pinigina 49.3
Bryzgina 47.9

So odd that Russia and their old SSRs don't even have one 400m runner that could make that team from 33 years ago.

Even a World All-Star team in hot new shoes couldn't touch that record today. Given the usual 0.7 conversion for relay legs, you'd need 4 people who, on THAT day, could, out of the blocks, average . . . 49.3. Good luck.

The top-4 finishers in the 2019 WC 400 averaged 48.895 without the shoes.

[Wiederganger]

Don't forget, one of the reasons the USSR ran a WR was because there was another team that pushed them all the way. The US don't have that.