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Tokyo women's 4x4 [split]

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  • Originally posted by gh View Post

    not a smart-ass response, but has she ever even been in 4x4 traffic? (at the college level)
    I think many folks have the NCAA Indoor 400 in mind when they worry about her ability to handle traffic. Also, her long back-kick makes her vulnerable to getting tripped up.

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    • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
      I think many folks have the NCAA Indoor 400 in mind when they worry about her ability to handle traffic. Also, her long back-kick makes her vulnerable to getting tripped up.
      There was no traffic problem in the indoor 400. This is one of those myths that won't die. There was a smart aggressive race run by Roberts and a dumb race run by Mu. It's not a traffic problem when there is no traffic.

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      • Again, I think we are overthinking this. Have the logical relay eligibles pick a marble for one of the four spots. Have the four draw straws for relay legs. Same result, no hard feelings or second-guessing. No?

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        • Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
          Again, I think we are overthinking this. Have the logical relay eligibles pick a marble for one of the four spots. Have the four draw straws for relay legs. Same result, no hard feelings or second-guessing. No?
          Exactly.

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          • Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
            Again, I think we are overthinking this. Have the logical relay eligibles pick a marble for one of the four spots. Have the four draw straws for relay legs. Same result, no hard feelings or second-guessing. No?
            But that's not how coaches assign relay legs. That's fine if being "fair" is top of mind, but is it fair to the team not to maximize their potential result based on known strengths and experience?

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            • Since we all have an opinion: Hayes (or Jonathas), Felix, Mu, McLaughlin.

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              • Originally posted by booond View Post

                There was no traffic problem in the indoor 400. This is one of those myths that won't die. There was a smart aggressive race run by Roberts and a dumb race run by Mu. It's not a traffic problem when there is no traffic.
                Mu couldn't get to the space on the track becasue someone else was already there. You and I obviously define traffic differently.

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                • Originally posted by 1.609 View Post

                  But that's not how coaches assign relay legs. That's fine if being "fair" is top of mind, but is it fair to the team not to maximize their potential result based on known strengths and experience?
                  I understand that. Seventy years ago in the 440 relay, we (usually) led off with the best starter, had the best 220 guy on the second leg, and the fastest guy on anchor. In the mile relay, we simply ran slowest to fastest. There was no traffic in the 440 relay and I don't recall that was ever an issue/worry in the mile relay. I am just saying that in this instance with the available talent, they can win it choosing the lineup by rock/paper/scissors.

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                  • Originally posted by dupontred View Post
                    Since we all have an opinion: Hayes (or Jonathas), Felix, Mu, McLaughlin.
                    Not quite. Hayes/Jonathas (depending on who finishes better in the open 400), Felix (depending on how close she comes to, or breaks, her open PR of 49.26), McLaughlin (who has been in 48.x territory) and Mu (if she goes 1:54.x, she's definitely going much faster than 48.8). Do they finally lay the Soviet WR of 3:15.17 low?

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                    • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

                      Mu couldn't get to the space on the track becasue someone else was already there. You and I obviously define traffic differently.
                      I'm afraid I have to agree with this. Diane Dixon was about to make a bid for the inside lane at the 200 mark at the 1989 indoor World Champs; but Helga Arendt beat her to it, and Dixon spent all of the second lap trying to find a way to overtake her but couldn't. She would not fall asleep like that at the 150-to-200 mark again in 1991. Everyone else, including Sandra Myers, expended a lot of effort in trying to catch and pass her but failed.

                      I thought I read that Mu had trouble trying to keep her balance on the Armory track 2½ years ago, before she folded and Roisin Willis caught her. Was she having that kind of trouble for running in the 2nd lane for too long at the NCAA Indoor 400, with those long legs of hers?
                      Last edited by CookyMonzta; 07-29-2021, 06:40 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post

                        I'm afraid I have to agree with this. Diane Dixon was about to make a bid for the inside lane at the 200 mark at the 1989 indoor World Champs; but Helga Arendt beat her to it, and Dixon spent all of the second lap trying to find a way to overtake her but couldn't. She would not fall asleep like that at the 150-to-200 mark again in 1991. Everyone else, including Sandra Myers, expended a lot of effort in trying to catch and pass her but failed.
                        Though I'm one of the "oo she has to be careful with traffic" folk, I will say indoor running is totally different though, with much tighter, banked, bends, and four turns in all, not two, so is a different beast and yes, it most cases you really need to get to the 200m mark first and make it difficult for others to pass.

                        Maybe we are totally over thinking things in what should be an easy US win, but we're looking at the least risky order, and the order most likely to get a fast time.

                        Personally, I hope the US get it all wrong, so we get to see a battle, I hate watching a team way out ahead, it's boring, and then the minor medals become more interesting.

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                        • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                          Personally, I hope the US get it all wrong, so we get to see a battle, I hate watching a team way out ahead, it's boring, and then the minor medals become more interesting.
                          Let’s rather hope other teams get it right.

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                          • 1)Hayes, Jonathas, Ellis or Muhammad (whoever is running best)
                            2)Felix,
                            3)McLaughlin,
                            4)Mu

                            Last 2 legs, sub 49. Maybe last 3. 🙂
                            Last edited by _Jay; 07-29-2021, 06:46 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                              Personally, I hope the US get it all wrong
                              That's a shocker.

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                              • Really doubt the order needs to be perfect...if you put the names in a hat and drew for the order in which they ran I think the US would still be favored no matter how it turned out: but, that is why they run the race.

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