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Tokyo women's 4x4 [split]

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  • #16
    Jessica Beard 49.13 at the '11 NCAA

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    • #17
      Originally posted by gh View Post
      Jessica Beard 49.13 at the '11 NCAA
      Olympics/Worlds

      I look at meets like NCAA, Penn Relays etc. as very different. Beard never got close to that the 6 times she ran at worlds (prelims & finals).
      Last edited by ATK; 04-13-2021, 12:33 AM.

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      • #18
        As you might have guessed, I don't have all the qualifiers that ATK has when assessing relay potential. If an open 400 runner medals with a time of 49.61, there's no way I'm going to pick Muhammad over her based solely on two-year-old relay split. I'm not saying I wouldn't pick Muhammad but she would have to provide more recent results than her Doha relay split in order for me to do so. The only thing that might give me pause is the schedule. On the other hand, in Doha Wadeline Jonathas and Phyllis Francis both ran a second faster than Muhammad's PR in the 400 final and had a a day more rest than her, so extra rest doesn't always tell the whole story.

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        • #19
          Just to be clear, my main point was that Muhammad's split in Doha was better than most US women over the past few decades. Regardless, I think we can all agree, the 400mH ladies are all in the relay conversation as of now.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ATK View Post
            Just to be clear, my main point was that Muhammad's split in Doha was better than most US women over the past few decades. Regardless, I think we can all agree, the 400mH ladies are all in the relay conversation as of now.
            In your original post you mentioned decade (singular), not decades (plural), which is why I only went back to 2011. If we go back to 1991 or 1981, Muhammad doesn't make top 10 even using your narrow criteria and probably not top 30 using mine. However, I agree that the 400 hurdlers should be in the mix.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Atticus View Post
              Here's a scary (and quite possible) idea - this is just her April form. She's still building to a peak for the OT and OG.
              I assume everyone feels that way already lol.

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              • #22
                beebee & jazzcyclist I guess Polevaultpower's post answers it all for me. And this is not just my view, its the view of many non-American fans who I interact with on Twitter. gm no idea what Bol has to do with NCAA testing protocols? But I don't want to divert from the main point of this thread, so we'll stop there!

                Muhammad's relay split in Doha was superb. To run the hurdles WR she did, she was obviously in tremendous flat form. And re Tokyo, as I say, the 400mh is right at the start of the programme, so at least give her a run out in the 4x4 heats, and include McLaughlin in the 4x4 final, and top 3 in the Trials if you want. But if she's in similar form as 2019 - a big TBC - then get her in the team!

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                • #23
                  I had forgotten that in Doha nations were allowed to make wholesale substitutions in the final, which means they used 8 runners not the usual 6. Does anyone know if they will be allowed to do this in the Olympics? If you add the mixed relay that's a lot of relay opportunities to go around.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                    I had forgotten that in Doha nations were allowed to make wholesale substitutions in the final, which means they used 8 runners not the usual 6. Does anyone know if they will be allowed to do this in the Olympics? If you add the mixed relay that's a lot of relay opportunities to go around.
                    Remembering now, in a previous topic gh seemed to confirm that Tokyo wont be like Doha and 2 from the heats will have to run in the final, like previous championships.

                    https://forum.trackandfieldnews.com/...14#post1678414

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                    • #25
                      Without the Doha substitution rules, if all 6 American female 400 and 400H athletes make the finals, the 4x400 relay will present some challenges. Do you run 2 400 hurdlers in the rslay heats the day after the hurdle final? My guess is that the 400 finalists certainly won't be available to run in the relay hears the day before the 400 final. Also, do you use the 400 finalists in the relay final the day after the 400 final? The women 200 and 800 runners may come into the picture since they will have had a day more rest than the 400 hurdlers.
                      Last edited by jazzcyclist; 04-13-2021, 04:33 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Who decided that the 400m should overlap with the 4x400m relay on the schedule...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ATK View Post
                          Who decided that the 400m should overlap with the 4x400m relay on the schedule...
                          Good question

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                            Good question
                            That definitely advantages the nation with the deepest 400 talent, which is . . . uh . . . wait, it's on the tip of my tongue, I mean finger . . .

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ATK View Post
                              Who decided that the 400m should overlap with the 4x400m relay on the schedule...
                              And it overlaps for the women but not the men. To avoid that overlap, all they would have to do is swap the women's 4x400 heats with the women's 400 final. That would mean no rest day between the 400 semis and the final, but that's far better than having an overlap like that.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                                That definitely advantages the nation with the deepest 400 talent, which is . . . uh . . . wait, it's on the tip of my tongue, I mean finger . . .
                                It also advantages a nation that might not have any 400 finalist, but may be good enough to snatch a medal if nations like the U.S. and Jamaica send tired teams to the final. Or it's possible that the U.S. and Jamaica will decide not to use any of their 400 finalists in the 4x400 final.

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