Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tokyo women's 4x4 [split]

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    If all 3 women make the 400m final (which has happened in 3 of the last 4 Olympics) the US could end up in a tricky political situation. Imagine telling one of the 3 to run in the relay heat because they "probably wont do as well in the 400 final anyway" so might as well get a (basically) guaranteed relay medal.
    Last edited by ATK; 04-13-2021, 07:14 PM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ATK View Post
      If all 3 women make the 400m final (which has happened in 3 of the last 4 Olympics) the US could end up in a tricky political situation. Imagine telling one of the 3 to run in the relay heat because they "probably wont do as well in the 400 final anyway" so might as well get a (basically) guaranteed relay medal.
      I doubt they would want to run in the relay heat the day before the 400 final. I think the female quartermilers should focus on the mixed relay for their second medals. The mixed relay is just as problematic for the 400 hurdlers (both men and women) as the women's relay is for the female quartermilers.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ATK View Post
        If all 3 women make the 400m final (which has happened in 3 of the last 4 Olympics) the US could end up in a tricky political situation. Imagine telling one of the 3 to run in the relay heat because they "probably wont do as well in the 400 final anyway" so might as well get a (basically) guaranteed relay medal.
        There's no need to tell any of the 3 finalists to run the relay heat. They can fill the relay heat with the 4th, 5th, and 6th placers from the trials, plus one of the 400 hurdlers (or a sprinty 800m runner like Mu or Rogers).

        The problem is in the opposite direction; they'll have to leave one of the 3 finalists off the relay, because they will refuse to run the heats, and then only 2 of the 3 can be brought in for the final. But that's an easier problem to solve politically; just pick the 2 highest-placing finalists for the relay.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
          There's no need to tell any of the 3 finalists to run the relay heat. They can fill the relay heat with the 4th, 5th, and 6th placers from the trials, plus one of the 400 hurdlers (or a sprinty 800m runner like Mu or Rogers).

          The problem is in the opposite direction; they'll have to leave one of the 3 finalists off the relay, because they will refuse to run the heats, and then only 2 of the 3 can be brought in for the final. But that's an easier problem to solve politically; just pick the 2 highest-placing finalists for the relay.
          I think we're getting at the problem from both sides. All 3 ladies who make the 400m final will more than likely feel they deserve a spot in the 4x4 final over those who didn't even make the individual team. So USA either has to leave one of the 3 women off the relay or have one women sacrifice her rest and run the relay heat, 400m final and relay final. Its essentially a lose-lose situation.

          I think jazz notes the "best" compromise with the mixed relay at the beginning of the meet....but it's the MIXED relay.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
            There's no need to tell any of the 3 finalists to run the relay heat. They can fill the relay heat with the 4th, 5th, and 6th placers from the trials, plus one of the 400 hurdlers (or a sprinty 800m runner like Mu or Rogers).
            That's exactly what I was thinking. With this schedule and the high likelihood of #1, #2 and #3 making the final, #4, #5 and #6 should already be pencilled in for the relay heats.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ATK View Post
              I think we're getting at the problem from both sides. All 3 ladies who make the 400m final will more than likely feel they deserve a spot in the 4x4 final over those who didn't even make the individual team. So USA either has to leave one of the 3 women off the relay or have one women sacrifice her rest and run the relay heat, 400m final and relay final. Its essentially a lose-lose situation.
              I remember one year when Sanya Richards anchored the heats and she was given such a big lead that she was able jog around the track. I believe she split 56 or something like that. It was essentially "active rest". If one of the 400 finalists is asked to run the heats, hopefully she'll also be put on anchor where she can rest, assuming the other 3 runners do their jobs.

              Comment


              • #37
                The timetabling is atrocious this Olympics for the women. The 200/400 double is extremely tough if you're a medal candidate; the 400mh and mixed 4x400m overlap, and the individual 400m and women's 4x400m overlap. The latter is unacceptable to me. If you could only fix one, you would ensure the individual 400 & w4x4 don't overlap, as that will potentially affect the most athletes & countries (USA, JAM, POL...poss GBR & NED).

                If all 3 Americans make the 400m final, and they all want to run in the 4x400m final, then they would have to lay out some rules: 1st, ask for a volunteer to run the heats; if no one volunteers, then do a coin toss, and put her on the final leg where she can run a more relaxed leg as jazzcyclist says. Alternatively, you lay it out from the start that 3rd at the Trials will run the in the 4x400m heats. The other way is as 18.99 says, which is leave all 3 individual finalists out of the 4x4 heats, and the top 2 finishers get to be in the 4x4 final, which is pretty fair I feel (then its who you run in the heats from a different angle: do you run both 400m hurdlers, who you may want in the final, as well as 4th & 5th from the trials, or do you run the 4th, 5th, 6th from the Trials + a hurdler? As the mixed overlaps the hurdles, I would be inclined to run 2x 400m hurdlers in the 4x4 hts & final, and you can choose out of the others who's doing the mixed hts & final + w4x hts!

                Anyway, you have options, and it's a nice situation to be in!

                Re other teams, I spoke to Laurent Meuwly after my thread on the timetable dilemma for the Dutch team, and he said he wont make any decisions before Tokyo, and some will be made during the Games. I feel most teams will have to operate that way.
                Last edited by Wiederganger; 04-14-2021, 09:45 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                  1st, ask for a volunteer to run the heats; if no one volunteers, then do a coin toss, and put her on the final leg where she can run a more relaxed leg as jazzcyclist says.
                  That's assuming the heats are appropriately seeded so you don't end up with Jamaica and Poland in the same heat with the USA.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                    That's assuming the heats are appropriately seeded so you don't end up with Jamaica and Poland in the same heat with the USA.
                    The top 3 in each heat automatically qualify for the final, and at the last 4 global championships teams had to run 3:25-3:26 to do that. IMO, it's not important to win your heat in the 4x400.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                      Yep. 11 tests in 28 months (2019 until now) doesn't cut the mustard for me I'm afraid, so I'm hoping the numbers ramp us this year - although testing in summer is pretty meaningless.

                      Anyway, I didn't want this to be about her per se, it was about NCAA protocols not matching WADA as I said, hence the 10.75 I'm a bit 'meh' about.

                      Anyway, this relay discussion is much more fun!
                      Where are the testing numbers and details published for European athletes? I assume there is a list like USADA's somewhere showing who has been tested and how many times.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

                        The top 3 in each heat automatically qualify for the final, and at the last 4 global championships teams had to run 3:25-3:26 to do that. IMO, it's not important to win your heat in the 4x400.
                        If JAM and POL are in the same heat with USA, I don't think the US anchor will be content to relax into third place and run a 56-second leg. They're going to want to be better than 3rd, and/or build up more distance ahead of 4th.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                          If JAM and POL are in the same heat with USA, I don't think the US anchor will be content to relax into third place and run a 56-second leg. They're going to want to be better than 3rd, and/or build up more distance ahead of 4th.
                          If the anchor is also a 400 finalist, then it's on her what she wants to do with the rest opportunity that's been presented to her. She can run hard and split 49.xx for bragging rights or jog a 56 to save herself for the 400 final. When Sanya did it her 400 final was already behind her, but she was saving herself to put the hammer down in next day's relay final.
                          Last edited by jazzcyclist; 04-14-2021, 03:51 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                            If JAM and POL are in the same heat with USA, I don't think the US anchor will be content to relax into third place and run a 56-second leg. They're going to want to be better than 3rd, and/or build up more distance ahead of 4th.
                            I agree with the distance on 4th for sure.

                            Jamaica and Poland will probably be running a "B-team" with Jackson and Święty-Ersetic likely in the 400m final (maybe +1 more each country). So if the USA is in 3rd on the anchor, 4th/5th are probably already running for their life, and now have more motivation to maybe edge out the US.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ATK View Post

                              I agree with the distance on 4th for sure.

                              Jamaica and Poland will probably be running a "B-team" with Jackson and Święty-Ersetic likely in the 400m final (maybe +1 more each country). So if the USA is in 3rd on the anchor, 4th/5th are probably already running for their life, and now have more motivation to maybe edge out the US.
                              I can't imagine a situation where the U.S. would be I in third place at the third exchange given the fact that we'd be putting 3 fresh bodies on the track while Jamaica and/or Poland might not have the depth to do that.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                                I can't imagine a situation where the U.S. would be I in third place at the third exchange given the fact that we'd be putting 3 fresh bodies on the track while Jamaica and/or Poland might not have the depth to do that.
                                Neither can I but what I can imagine though is the anchor being out front, running a bit too conservative and somehow 3 teams pass them in the final meters. Super unlikely, but stranger things have happened. I also think Poland, Jamaica and USA being in the same heat is unlikely. I also thought the 4x400 overlapping with the open 400m was unlikely....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X