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World Relays 2021 - No USA.... & no JAM?

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  • KevinR
    replied
    Settled in to watch Day 1 on my DVR, only to find the Shuttle Relay (the one I was looking forward to) just settling into the blocks when my DVR stopped recording it.

    For the record, I understand the commentary that mixing up the order of the men and women in the mixed races makes it interesting, but I am not sure it will win over any new fans. I found it more challenging to have to watch so much action taking place at different parts of the track. (Could just be me).

    Finally, not sure I am a fan of the 2x2x400 mixed race, especially at this level.

    Overall, I quite enjoyed the meet, and agree with others who earlier posted about seeing such genuine excitement for many of the teams.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

    "Spouting nonsense"...oh jeez, here we go.

    As polevaultpower has written on another thread, there are differences between NCAA dope testing procedures and WADA, some quite significant. There have been improvements, but they are still out of sync. That's just a fact. Everyone who 'has done their research' knows this and you do too, we just have a difference of opinion on what that means.
    For me, based on this fact, my view and that of many non American fans on Twitter (as polevaultpower can also attest, as she follows similar people to me) is that amazing performances set by college athletes are to be viewed cautiously. And that's it.
    PVP explained why some NCAA world records might not have been ratified, she never questioned USADA's testing of NCAA athletes. For track fans outside of the U.S., whatever the NCAA does should be of no concern to you as long as NCAA athletes are subject to normal USADA testing just like the pros are Obviously the system is working because non of these world records have ratified in recent years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post

    I have. Lots and lots of it. And guess what? There's nothing. So I have to take your assertions of the stringent non-U.S. doping control with a huge grain of salt.
    Sorry, when I have asserted stringent non-US doping control? I've questioned the NCAA protocols, but I can't see where I have asserted fantastic non-US testing? Don't get it twisted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

    Perhaps you could also do a little research before spouting nonsense about American collegiate athletes.
    "Spouting nonsense"...oh jeez, here we go.

    As polevaultpower has written on another thread, there are differences between NCAA dope testing procedures and WADA, some quite significant. There have been improvements, but they are still out of sync. That's just a fact. Everyone who 'has done their research' knows this and you do too, we just have a difference of opinion on what that means.
    For me, based on this fact, my view and that of many non American fans on Twitter (as polevaultpower can also attest, as she follows similar people to me) is that amazing performances set by college athletes are to be viewed cautiously. And that's it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weights&Shoes
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post

    discussed in multiple posts earlier in this thread
    Which is why I had that quote in my post. I was just mentioning the thoughts I also had while watching the events.

    Leave a comment:


  • donley2
    replied
    Were there any covid positives reported related to the hosting of the World Relays?

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  • gm
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

    You could always try and do your own digging if it means that much to you..?
    I have. Lots and lots of it. And guess what? There's nothing. So I have to take your assertions of the stringent non-U.S. doping control with a huge grain of salt.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

    You could always try and do your own digging if it means that much to you..?
    Perhaps you could also do a little research before spouting nonsense about American collegiate athletes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    Still waiting for someone to post a link that shows how many times each Euro athlete has been tested this year.
    You could always try and do your own digging if it means that much to you..?

    Leave a comment:


  • gm
    replied
    Still waiting for someone to post a link that shows how many times each Euro athlete has been tested this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    I think 3:01 is a reasonable target for the Dutch men this year, which averages at 45.25 per leg. They ran 3:03 here in dismal conditions and Dobber & Angela are young and improving. They have stuck with the same running order as they did in Torun, and I think it works well: a pretty traditional approach with the fastest over 200m on leg 2, weakest on leg 3, good at chasing and bringing it home on leg 4. They are all pretty evenly matched though, which is good.

    On the women's side though, they need to not quite go back to the drawing board, but have a good think about the team and the order. Why they didn't stick to a similar traditional approach like the men I don't know, but in an interview Lisanne De witte said they wanted to try and risk something different. With the 4 they ran, it really should have been De witte to Klaver to Hovenkamp to Bol. Running order questions aside, it's also back to the issue around a very poor 4th best runner. 54 secs on leg 1 (or the 53.5 she ran in the hts) aint gonna cut it. I don't know why Dopheide didn't travel (the 4th best NED & 2nd leg runner in Torun) but again she's 53.0 at best anyway.

    NED w4x4 came here aiming for the win, and ended up 4th. That's without the USA, JAM, CAN & NIG, all capable of running fast. So, I'll say it again, if come Tokyo their 4th best is a high 53 sec runner, then they need to take the right risk, and consider a short sprinter in the team. I said Schippers before, and I stand by that, but Marije Van Hunenstijn (11.1/22.9) could even be considered. Heck, I'm sure both could run quicker that a 54 second leg!

    Leave a comment:


  • Trickstat
    replied
    I can certainly see the Dutch men going 3:01 or quicker sometime.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

    Hmmmm, not sure. Would it be held in the same weather conditions, and would there be the same drug testing procedures? 🙄

    Holler at me when the NCAAs are held in a wet, empty stadium in 6 degrees, where the athletes are not peaked, with no prior meets and when they have the correct dope testing. Then we can be smart and make comparisons with times...
    I'm sure the weather affected the performances and it is true that athletes at the NCAA championships are in peak form since it's their biggest meet of the year, while athletes at the World Relays are still building towards a peak. However, the drug testing issue is just a canard because all the notable collegiate (and high school) athletes are already being tested just like the pros. For example, In 2018, when Michael Norman set the world record in the indoor 400 while at USC, he was subjected to 5 USADA out-of-competition tests in addition to NCAA testing. Athing Mu was subjected to 9 USADA out-of-competition tests in 2019 as a high school junior and she's already been subjected to 7 tests this year in addition to NCAA testing. By contrast, Jenny Simpson, a pro who has won multiple global championships medals, has only been tested once by USADA this year and Matthew Centrowitz has been tested 6 times in 2021. Collegiate athletes aren't tested by the NCAA instead of USADA, they are tested by the NCAA in addition to USADA.
    Last edited by jazzcyclist; 05-04-2021, 01:13 PM.

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  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post

    Would they qualify for the Final at NCAAs (SEC?)?
    Hmmmm, not sure. Would it be held in the same weather conditions, and would there be the same drug testing procedures? 🙄

    Holler at me when the NCAAs are held in a wet, empty stadium in 6 degrees, where the athletes are not peaked, with no prior meets and when they have the correct dope testing. Then we can be smart and make comparisons with times...
    Last edited by Wiederganger; 05-04-2021, 08:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • HopStepJump
    replied
    Best part was definitely day 1 seeing teams like Botswana qualifying for the Olympics. Day 2 was just OK.

    Leave a comment:

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