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  • Thank goodness Jordan was not that good a baseball player...

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    • I need a simple question answered, please.
      Were the USATF Golden Games an official part of the Mt SAC Relays?

      I'm asking because I need to know if the GG marks can be considered to be Mt SAC Meet Records (assuming they broke the old record).
      Or was that an entirely separate meet, creating its own set of MR's?

      Thanks!

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      • Originally posted by aaronk View Post
        I need a simple question answered, please.
        Were the USATF Golden Games an official part of the Mt SAC Relays?

        I'm asking because I need to know if the GG marks can be considered to be Mt SAC Meet Records (assuming they broke the old record).
        Or was that an entirely separate meet, creating its own set of MR's?

        Thanks!
        I was sorta wondering the same.. I remember reading this prior to the meet though:
        "The Golden Games, one of only two gold level competitions in the United States, is part of the 2021 USATF Grand Prix Series and for the next three years, will also be a part of the Elite Division of the Mt. SAC Relays."

        I'm not sure if this helps. I did not see Mt. SAC Relays record books change yet, but it's only been a day or two, and I'm not sure if they are changing websites(?)... it's a weird transition year...

        https://runmtsac.com/mt-sac-to-host-usatf-golden-games/

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        • So, now a picture of Rai Benjamin is on the T&FN front page going over one of the last hurdles at the recent Mt Sac race with both of his arms wide apart sideways. I'm not a coach, but I'm pretty sure that isn't taught. And he's one of the best ever, so is it just that form doesn't really matter? Or that you're so tired at the end of the race that you have no control? Or what?

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          • Originally posted by Soijai View Post

            You lumped her in with people you declared delusional or desperate for attention. At least one of them qualifies for that, but all of those others were failures at their attempts. No one forced a team to sign her, but Tulsa did and she played for them in a minor role. One of these things is not like the others...
            I am not sure what your point is. One thing is for certain. Marion Jones was never gonna succeed at basketball after being away for 12 years and being 34 or 35. I don't know why they kept her on the team. Maybe she was good for publicity or maybe the coaches were delusional or maybe the owners really liked her. Either way she did not make it. Better players have been cut in training camp and did not even make the final roster. Young players who excelled in college and had far more upside.

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            • Originally posted by Fortius19 View Post
              So, now a picture of Rai Benjamin is on the T&FN front page going over one of the last hurdles at the recent Mt Sac race with both of his arms wide apart sideways. I'm not a coach, but I'm pretty sure that isn't taught. And he's one of the best ever, so is it just that form doesn't really matter? Or that you're so tired at the end of the race that you have no control? Or what?
              While that is certainly not best-practices form, by the last two hurdles, it's most imperative to just get over them in stride and balance. It can indeed get ugly sometimes.
              The better the form, the faster the time, but hitting hurdles at this point can be disastrous. It's a good drill at the end of a hard training day to work on form.

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              • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                While that is certainly not best-practices form, by the last two hurdles, it's most imperative to just get over them in stride and balance. It can indeed get ugly sometimes.
                The better the form, the faster the time, but hitting hurdles at this point can be disastrous. It's a good drill at the end of a hard training day to work on form.
                I think you may have mentioned coaching hurdlers? I watched the video and noticed his trail arm was neat and then started deviating from that form at hurdle 5. Hurdle 8 is hard to see what's going on as they're coming off the bend, and by 9 that trail arm is at a right angle to his torso. Isn't the trail arm's main function to maintain balance coming off the hurdle? Do you see any connection between staying balanced and what that trail arm is doing? What about the other arm? I'm wondering if his main concern at that point in the race was having the least interruption in momentum after clearing the hurdle.

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                • Originally posted by Fortius19 View Post
                  So, now a picture of Rai Benjamin is on the T&FN front page going over one of the last hurdles at the recent Mt Sac race with both of his arms wide apart sideways. I'm not a coach, but I'm pretty sure that isn't taught. And he's one of the best ever, so is it just that form doesn't really matter? Or that you're so tired at the end of the race that you have no control? Or what?
                  Watch his whole race, he pretty much does this over every hurdle from like 3 to 10, though it does get more and more pronounced as he gets more tired. But you can see, especially compared to McMaster and Dos Santos, Benjamin keeps his arms wide apart while the other two do a much better job. Though I'm no coach either so Atticus' post is most relevant.

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                  • Originally posted by Fortius19 View Post
                    So, now a picture of Rai Benjamin is on the T&FN front page going over one of the last hurdles at the recent Mt Sac race with both of his arms wide apart sideways. I'm not a coach, but I'm pretty sure that isn't taught. And he's one of the best ever, so is it just that form doesn't really matter? Or that you're so tired at the end of the race that you have no control? Or what?
                    The "worst arm form" I've ever seen from any runner was Mark Everett. Rai is nowhere near Mark Everett......!

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                    • Originally posted by 1.609 View Post
                      Isn't the trail arm's main function to maintain balance coming off the hurdle? Do you see any connection between staying balanced and what that trail arm is doing? What about the other arm? I'm wondering if his main concern at that point in the race was having the least interruption in momentum after clearing the hurdle.
                      The key in any hurdles race is to keep the arms 'quiet', which means close to the body and biomechanically efficient (closest to actual sprint form, but balancing the asymmetric leg action - lead leg out, trail leg in tight).

                      Here's a good look at it

                      digestpic29.jpg


                      The goal in the 400H is emulate 110H form but in holding a higher speed, hurdlers are rarely as efficient. Wilbur Ross had a book about it (Hurdlers' Bible) which is the best text I've ever seen. Davenport, Milburn, Nehemiah demonstrated it perfectly.

                      Here's the paragon:

                      image-asset.jpeg?format=750w.jpg

                      He is also illustrating how hard it is to keep the trail leg flat at high speed and fatigue, which manifests a higher clearance, which is not ideal, but is necessary at this point.

                      Last edited by Atticus; 05-12-2021, 01:59 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by lexvid View Post
                        Olympic standard for Justyn Knight (Can). PR and Olympic standard just behind Ollie. Usually a 5K man so he can choose to double. Mo Ahmed (WC Bronze medalist) also in the race to shake the cobb webs out. Nice to see effort like this.
                        Knight looked good, even coming in 2nd! Just in case no American meets the Oly standard, I can root for my fellow Syracuse alum......!

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                        • I may be wrong, but it appears Richardson is only the third woman ever to run 10.7x twice in one day, the others being:

                          Fraser-Pryce at Berlin on Aug 17 09
                          Griffith-Joyner on Jul 17 88

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                          • I reckon this arm "form" is not Benjamin's main problem. Look at his clearances in the back straight, he and McMaster are side by side and at the same pace so you can compare ... He's less efficient than his Caribbean counterpart, Benjamin gets off the ground before but lands a bit after at H3, they take off simultaneously at H4 but McMaster touches down way earlier then seems faster again at H5. MM keeps shoulders, hips and trail leg aligned at take off while Benjamin is more chaotic, the movement of the lead leg is very similar to a 110mH one for MM when Benjamin has a circular clearance, thing we can see sometimes in a 100mH. He spends much more time in the air, much too high. Maybe this is a result of a narrow distance to the hurdle ...

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                            • Originally posted by ZazaShoya View Post
                              I reckon this arm "form" is not Benjamin's main problem. Look at his clearances in the back straight, he and McMaster are side by side and at the same pace so you can compare ... He's less efficient than his Caribbean counterpart, Benjamin gets off the ground before but lands a bit after at H3, they take off simultaneously at H4 but McMaster touches down way earlier then seems faster again at H5. MM keeps shoulders, hips and trail leg aligned at take off while Benjamin is more chaotic, the movement of the lead leg is very similar to a 110mH one for MM when Benjamin has a circular clearance, thing we can see sometimes in a 100mH. He spends much more time in the air, much too high. Maybe this is a result of a narrow distance to the hurdle ...
                              He did seem rough around the edges and admitted such in the interview afterward. But if that's his rusty look, what's he gonna bring in August?
                              I wonder, with a training partner like Norman, does he spend enough time on hurdles mechanics, or are the two of them just pummelling each other in endurance sprint training?
                              Speaking of which, will Norman run the 200 this year? Seems like he has his hands full in getting back to 43 shape!

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                              • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                                He did seem rough around the edges and admitted such in the interview afterward. But if that's his rusty look, what's he gonna bring in August?
                                I wonder, with a training partner like Norman, does he spend enough time on hurdles mechanics, or are the two of them just pummelling each other in endurance sprint training?
                                Speaking of which, will Norman run the 200 this year? Seems like he has his hands full in getting back to 43 shape!
                                He'll need it at one time or another. He can't just rest on his flat speed and hope it will be sufficient to beat the likes of Warholm and Samba ... losing 0.05/0.1 at each hurdle seems a bit much, and we're not even talking of intervals !
                                But sure, great time for such an imperfect race.

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