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U18--Who gets the Record?

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  • U18--Who gets the Record?

    OK, OK, I get it!
    MY U18 is different from YOUR U18!!
    (Ditto with MY U20 & U23 and YOUR U20 & U23!!)
    And yes, I know MY not liking what the "Record Agencies" designate as these U categories means nothing!!
    I'm not elite in any way,--as a former athlete, or coach, or governing figure!
    I do a blog, but it's not widely read, and definitely NOT seen as a source for "facts" about T&F!

    But come on, folks!
    U18 SHOULD mean any athlete under the Age of 18 at the time of his or her mark!!
    Not caring what YEAR the person was born, just the ACTUAL DATE of birth vis a vis the ACTUAL DATE of the mark/record in question!

    Classic (and latest) example!
    Erriyon Knighton's 20.11.
    SAID to be the new U18 record, breaking Usain Bolt's 20.13!

    Yes, Bolt was 17 when he ran that 20.13.
    BUT he was ALSO 17 (& about 8 months) when he ran 19.93 at the Carifta Games in the spring of 2004!
    Yes, Bolt would turn 18 about 4 months later, thus negating his mark as a U18 record vis a vis WA or whoever's standards & rules!

    BUT Knighton was 0.18 SLOWER THAN Bolt when BOTH were 17--thus both WERE U18 by ACTUAL FACT standards!!

    OK, have at me!!
    But you'll never change my mind!!
    Check my blog for the REAL U18 record in the Men's 200!!
    It will say "BOLT 19.93"!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by aaronk View Post
    OK, OK, I get it!
    ....

    But come on, folks!
    U18 SHOULD mean any athlete under the Age of 18 at the time of his or her mark!!..."!!
    one of the reasons we've never adopted the WA terminology, and stuck with Youth and (for U20) Junior

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by gh View Post

      one of the reasons we've never adopted the WA terminology, and stuck with Youth and (for U20) Junior
      Yes, but the problem still exists!
      Those categories still depend on the YEAR of birth, not just the actual day!
      Thus Knighton (born in January) IS going to be designated as Junior (or Youth--don't follow those definitions either!) all this year!
      Whereas Bolt (born in August) did not have that luxury that Knighton has back in 2004!
      And that's why Knighton is said to have broken Bolt's record!

      I hope he does run 19.92 or faster this year!
      I think he can!
      But until he does, Bolt still holds the Age 17 (U18) record, IMO!

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      • #4
        I do agree that there should be Age Records rather than categories defined by an athlete's age at the end of the calendar year. One example is Jacko Gill whose birthday is on December 20 so for each "age" category had 11 months and 19 days of performances ruled out in both the "Under 18" and "Under 20" categories. It would make more sense to have record performances determined by birth dates.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by aaronk View Post
          OK, have at me!! But you'll never change my mind!!
          So . . . remind what the point is again?

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          • #6
            It's fine the way it is.
            Be pretty silly to have someone eligible in the first round of the World U20 meet and then become ineligible overnight.

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            • #7
              No reason to assume we can't maintain two different sets of records. But it might be wise not to use the same name, since they mean slightly different things. (Not entirely unlike the notion of Federation records and overall records for high school.)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by gm View Post
                It's fine the way it is.
                Be pretty silly to have someone eligible in the first round of the World U20 meet and then become ineligible overnight.
                to say nothing of the disconnect of somebody winning the USATF Junior title and then not being eligible for the World Juniors.

                somebody gets hurt no matter how you do it, but in purely pragmatic terms, the by-year method causes the fewer headaches.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cigar95 View Post
                  No reason to assume we can't maintain two different sets of records. But it might be wise not to use the same name, since they mean slightly different things. (Not entirely unlike the notion of Federation records and overall records for high school.)
                  Fairly simple. Under 18/20 age records. Junior or Youth competitions for those under 20 or 18 at a given date; e.g. end of Calendar Year, end of month of competition, or whatever. No reason for them to be the same if the terminology is different.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gh View Post

                    to say nothing of the disconnect of somebody winning the USATF Junior title and then not being eligible for the World Juniors.

                    somebody gets hurt no matter how you do it, but in purely pragmatic terms, the by-year method causes the fewer headaches.
                    That all may be but selling Knighton's 20.11 as the under-18 record when Bolt ran 19.93 at age 17 is another case of T&F shooting itself in the foot. Normally these kind of non-intuitive rules are mostly discussed amongst us T&F nerds but this story was high on the Washington Post news yesterday so my guess is that many in the general public who actually read the story behind the headline of "Florida teenager breaks Usain Bolt’s 200-meter record for junior runners" will come away feeling ripped off - another case of hyperbole alert/fake news . . .

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...record-broken/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bad hammy View Post

                      That all may be but selling Knighton's 20.11 as the under-18 record when Bolt ran 19.93 at age 17 is another case of T&F shooting itself in the foot. Normally these kind of non-intuitive rules are mostly discussed amongst us T&F nerds but this story was high on the Washington Post news yesterday so my guess is that many in the general public who actually read the story behind the headline of "Florida teenager breaks Usain Bolt’s 200-meter record for junior runners" will come away feeling ripped off - another case of hyperbole alert/fake news . . .

                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...record-broken/
                      Happy to see I'm not alone here!
                      U18 means UNDER 18, or YOUNGER THAN 18, or NOT YET 18!
                      How has it come to NOT mean any of those designations?

                      Common sense tells you that Mr Bolt ran 19.93 when UNDER, YOUNGER THAN, and NOT YET 18!
                      Common sense should also tell you 20.11 is slower than 19.93!

                      "Shooting itself in the foot"?
                      Damn right!
                      LOL

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                      • #12
                        It probably wouldn't be that messy to keep the existing end-of-year age categorization for competition eligibility, but use age on the date of performance for records. After all, a U18 or U20 record doesn't have to be set in a U18 or U20 competition (unless the age means different hurdle heights or throwing implements).

                        So for example if you'll be 20 on July 1 this year, you would have from January 1 to June 30 when you can still set a U20 record, but you would have to do that in open-age competition (or a higher age group like U23) because you're no longer eligible to compete in U20 events.

                        That avoids the problem of mid-season or mid-meet loss of competition eligibility, while also reducing the birth-month disparities for record setters. Everybody would have the opportunity to set a U18 or U20 record until the day before their 18th or 20th birthday (although some would still have an advantage based on where their birthday fell relative to competitions during the season).
                        Last edited by 18.99s; 06-03-2021, 04:03 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                          Happy to see I'm not alone here! U18 means UNDER 18, or YOUNGER THAN 18, or NOT YET 18!
                          My daughter suffered of this IMO injustice because she was born in summer! Unfortunately IAAF and T&F News for ease letting this injustice continue. It is 2021 and computers easily can figure someone is 17 years and 250 days vs 18 years and 2 days.

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                          • #14
                            Outside our tiny group of men here of questionable mental faculties... no one really cares.
                            It is what it is, and it ain't changing.
                            I'm still confused by the infield fly rule.

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