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¶ '21 mOT 1500: Cole Hocker 3:35.28

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  • Originally posted by aaronk View Post
    In Hocker's case, WINNING may not be enough!!
    Winning SHOULD be enough as it's always been the USA's most important selection criteria to an Olympics.

    And if it's anything to do with the Everly Brothers, the song should have been 'Wake Up Stache & Mullet, Wake Up' as Engels was in horrible positions for pretty much the entire 1500m.

    Hocker got himself out of a not-great position today to win, a bit like Centro did in Rio.
    Last edited by Vault-emort; 06-28-2021, 03:10 PM.

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    • I thought the old B standard for any one entrant, and the A standard for the two other entrants made more sense. It was certainly easier to understand.

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      • Originally posted by gh View Post
        personally, I see Hocker as 1 or 2
        cherry-picking my bumps! :-)

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        • Originally posted by ATK View Post

          This was his deadline. I think Engles might go because of not only standard, but also world ranking. Engles is ranked #12 in the world rankings, the highest American, Hocker is only 42nd...
          That's not how it works. If his rank falls within the 45, he's in. He should be at this point but it isn't a given.
          Last edited by NotDutra5; 06-28-2021, 04:12 PM.

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          • Originally posted by miketandf View Post
            Trials order of finish is first priority - but he has to have the big-Q (which he does not), or a little-q (to be determined) to go.

            As of today, he is currently 44th (they take 45) on the Road-to-Tokyo list, which is a combination of who has the big-Q and then world rankings (but excludes more than 3 per country).

            But this race will likely move him up 3 slots on the current list to 41st. However, there was a lot of international action this weekend, so if he slips down past 45th, Engles goes.

            I believe WA's Road to Tokyo's lists, for the little-q portion, is updated every Wednesday, so that will be the first test to see if he goes, and I think the end of the Oly qualification period is July 1, so it will be a tense wait to see what unfolds.

            I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.
            This is correct.

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            • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

              The point of my musing was trying to work out the old chicken & egg question..

              Hocker might only fall below 45th if Engels is still in the list. Can USATF insist Engels (and the 6 other Americans ahead of Hocker on the WR list) is excluded so that Hocker can be selected. I would assume they can, but it's a bit messy and hasn't really come up as an issue before, as far as I'm aware.
              He would, in effect, displace Engels. There's no "insisting" involved.

              Here's the list. Hocker is listed as 42nd currently by rank which qualifies him for the Olympics. He's actually 41st because Engels would not be entered by the US. Hocker would be. The possibility is that he falls behind 4 guys I guess but I think it is pretty remote at this point with just a couple of days to go.

              https://www.worldathletics.org/stats...entId=10229502

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              • Originally posted by miketandf View Post
                Exactly, which comes first?... It's the same question I have... for some time now. It's coming into play in a couple of USA events.. and I don't have a clue which comes first.
                Neither comes first. The US is sending athletes in the order of finish at the OT if they have the "standard". "Standard" is defined as having a performance specific qualifier or a ranking high enough to fill the field.

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                • Originally posted by KDFINE View Post
                  I thought the old B standard for any one entrant, and the A standard for the two other entrants made more sense. It was certainly easier to understand.
                  Yes....but this way they can get athletes to compete in DL meets on the cheap.

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                  • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

                    He would, in effect, displace Engels. There's no "insisting" involved.
                    'Insist', 'Enforce', 'Impose', 'Overrule' 'Rule' - it's all the same really.

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                    • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

                      'Insist', 'Enforce', 'Impose', 'Overrule' 'Rule' - it's all the same really.
                      The point is that the US takes no action other than entering the 3 they wish to.

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                      • Originally posted by miketandf View Post
                        Trials order of finish is first priority - but he has to have the big-Q (which he does not), or a little-q (to be determined) to go.

                        As of today, he is currently 44th (they take 45) on the Road-to-Tokyo list, which is a combination of who has the big-Q and then world rankings (but excludes more than 3 per country).

                        But this race will likely move him up 3 slots on the current list to 41st. However, there was a lot of international action this weekend, so if he slips down past 45th, Engles goes.

                        I believe WA's Road to Tokyo's lists, for the little-q portion, is updated every Wednesday, so that will be the first test to see if he goes, and I think the end of the Oly qualification period is July 1, so it will be a tense wait to see what unfolds.

                        I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.
                        Also note that for Doha the mens 1500 had three athletes that were not qualified but were there countries only entrant in any event. So far for Tokyo those are called universality places and there is only one listed. Two more spots could make this REALLY close.

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                        • final rankings will be done July 01, but q-period ends June 29 (aka tomorrow)

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                          • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

                            The point is that the US takes no action other than entering the 3 they wish to.
                            And then the act of entering three serves to ipso facto displace any other Americans who might rank higher, I'm supposing?
                            Subsequently an alternate is also submitted but the process is smart enough to remove the possibility of the alternate displacing one of the top three?

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                            • Originally posted by cigar95 View Post
                              And then the act of entering three serves to ipso facto displace any other Americans who might rank higher, I'm supposing?
                              Subsequently an alternate is also submitted but the process is smart enough to remove the possibility of the alternate displacing one of the top three?
                              Yes because only the 3 athletes entered are placed into the field of 45.

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                              • Originally posted by donley2 View Post
                                Two more spots could make this REALLY close.
                                Oh, the angles! We'll check Engels' phone records for phone calls to Lower Slobovia and El Corobera to see if they have anyone who wants to run for four minutes.

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