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¶ '21 wOT 400H: Sydney McLaughlin 51.90 WR

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  • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
    Usually the races in the 400/800 and 400/400h are too close together.

    But that wasn't the case this year. Looking at the other 400h finalists and their likely reasons:

    SM, DM, Spencer: Olympics for them is "been there, done that". No incentive to double just for the sake of becoming an Olympian (although they may have contractual bonuses for making the Olympic team).

    Bookman, Tate, Hailey: Not fast enough to qualify for the trials in the flat 400.

    Cockrell: doubled with the 100h.

    Little: ???????
    Given her propensity to mess up in big races clearing hurdles little should have competed in the flat 400. Yes I know It is easy to Monday morning quarterback but I believe worst case scenario she would have been on the relay pool. I think she would have been second right behind Hayes but could have would have should have...

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    • Originally posted by ATK View Post

      But far slower is relative. Dalilah Muhammad left USC in 2012 with a PB of 56.19. She ran 53.83 in 2013, but didnt improve that until 2016 when she was 26 years old. So Cockrell and Anderson are already a step above.

      Anderson also didnt run here, but considering her PB in the 400m flat, why couldnt she do what Cockrell did an improve her hurdle PB by over a second or more? Shes also only 22 and didnt even run NCAAs (aside from the relay)
      If everyone coming out of a major track program made the same improvement we'd have 400h times closer to 41.9. Muhammad is the exception that proves the rule.

      Anderson probably should've doubled, too, for the experience of running against world class 400h. She's a bit of a tweener but, outside of some wicked relay legs at UCLA, she hasn't proved herself to be OG material in either event. Pick a lane and improve makes sense.

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      • Originally posted by booond View Post

        If everyone coming out of a major track program made the same improvement we'd have 400h times closer to 41.9. Muhammad is the exception that proves the rule.

        Anderson probably should've doubled, too, for the experience of running against world class 400h. She's a bit of a tweener but, outside of some wicked relay legs at UCLA, she hasn't proved herself to be OG material in either event. Pick a lane and improve makes sense.
        Never said everyone, only mentioned the two top ones (Cockrell and Anderson) In 2-4 years, why would we think they wouldn't make an improvement to be in the mix leading the pack (behind Sydney)

        And Muhammad was just one example, here are other Americans who improved in similar or longer time frame:

        Dalilah Muhammad - 22yo: 56.19 / 26yo: 52.88
        Tonja Buford Baliey - 22yo 55.00 25yo: 52.62
        Kim Batten - 21yo: 55.45 / 26yo: 52.61
        Sandra Farmer-Patrick - 22yo: 56.05 / 30yo: 52.79

        I agree Anderson should have doubled. Nothing to loose, if you miss the team here, shes already going to Tokyo on the Mixed relay

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        • Originally posted by ATK View Post
          I agree Anderson should have doubled. Nothing to loose, if you miss the team here, shes already going to Tokyo on the Mixed relay
          She had something to lose, because she already booked a spot on the mixed relay team. If she got injured by a bad fall in the hurdles, that could make her lose the opportunity to run the relay in Tokyo.

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          • I occasionally look up various athlete's drug testing history at USADA's website and I was shocked to see the disparity in 2021 testing for Little and McLaughlin, and I am in no way implying anything about either one.

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            • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
              I occasionally look up various athlete's drug testing history at USADA's website and I was shocked to see the disparity in 2021 testing for Little and McLaughlin, and I am in no way implying anything about either one.
              Are you going to spill the details?

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              • Originally posted by spikes007 View Post

                Same here. I wouldn't be surprised if after she wins gold in Tokyo, she starts making the switch to 400m. If she wants to be the next Felix she can't just do the 400mh.
                There aren't all that many household names in this sport, but Edwin Moses counts as on. being a 400h specialist worked out pretty well for his legacy.

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                • So now the world records for both the 100h and 400h are held by U. Kentucky women. That must be good for recruiting

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                  • Originally posted by cigar95 View Post
                    Sydney did 14 strides through hurdle 5, and then finished the race on her right lead for 5-10.
                    For those who follow her more closely, which leg is her favored leg? If she could get 14 strides to 6, that would have her finishing on the left lead.
                    Bumping my own. Any thoughts on the stride pattern?

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                    • Originally posted by booond View Post

                      Are you going to spill the details?
                      2021: Little - 8, McLaughlin- 0

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                      • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                        Why didn't Little run the flat 400? The schedule would have allowed both, with the flat 400 final on a Sunday and the 400 hurdles first round 5 days later on Friday. Now she's probably going to be left at home because she put all her eggs in the hurdles basket. Or end up watching the race from her hotel room's TV in Tokyo if she travels there as an alternate.
                        Little's decision not to run the flat 400 at the Trials was dumb, not in hindsight, but even before the meet. Her thinking going into the meet was very flawed. Little was thinking "I only have a small chance of winning a medal in the Olympics in the flat 400, but I have an excellent chance of winning a medal in the Olympics in the 400H."

                        What she should have been thinking was "I've never been an Olympian, and I've never won an Olympic medal. How can I do both?" Easy. Run the flat 400 at the Trials. Even if she didn't finish top 3, she would still probably have run fast enough be in the relay pool. That means she would have become an Olympian, run in the Olympic semis in the 4x400, and would get an Olympic gold medal when her teammates won gold in the final.

                        Then later in the week at the Trials, she'd have a chance at making the team in the 400H. If she finished in the top 3 at the Trials in BOTH the flat 400 and 400H, she could drop the flat 400, run only the 400H at the Olympics, and still be in the 4x400 relay pool. Which would get her a gold in the 4x400 and possibly a bronze in the 400H.

                        Little hitting a hurdle at the Trials and finishing 4th is understandable. Those things happen sometimes. What isn't understandable is why she threw away an almost guaranteed chance to be a first time Olympian and win an Olympic gold medal by deciding to skip the flat 400 at the Trials, when the only possible downside would have been she might be a little tired and run the 400H .1 slower at the Trials, which wouldn't make a difference.

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                        • Originally posted by RunningInCircles View Post
                          Little's decision not to run the flat 400 at the Trials was dumb
                          Would you care to rethink (or reword) that insult?
                          For example - 'I wonder what went into the thought processes of Little and her coach to forgo the 400.'

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                          • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                            I must like living dangerously, because I see no way DM (whom I like immensely) can beat SM now.
                            As for a sweep, Bol's chances for breaking it are higher now, but it seems Cockrell will be even better in Tokyo.
                            I disagree! I am in no way predicting a USA sweep but their chances are certainly equal to or maybe better with Anna Cockrell than they were with Shamier Little in the #3 positiion.
                            Little has had trouble running rounds whereas Cockrell has run so many races since May I've lost count (Pac 12, NCAA reg., NCAA finals, OTs) and has gotten stronger with every race, including this great PB from lane 8 when it really counted. My guess is Cockrell is also much stronger mentally than Shamier Little.
                            Little has more international experience but with the 2 greatest 400m hurdlers of all time for her team mates Cockrell will be fine. In Tokyo she won't have to deal with 100m hurdles and team relays and her star is definitely ascending. I would expect she will run under 53.15 in Tokyo.

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                            • Originally posted by RunningInCircles View Post

                              Little's decision not to run the flat 400 at the Trials was dumb, not in hindsight, but even before the meet. Her thinking going into the meet was very flawed. Little was thinking "I only have a small chance of winning a medal in the Olympics in the flat 400, but I have an excellent chance of winning a medal in the Olympics in the 400H."

                              What she should have been thinking was "I've never been an Olympian, and I've never won an Olympic medal. How can I do both?" Easy. Run the flat 400 at the Trials. Even if she didn't finish top 3, she would still probably have run fast enough be in the relay pool. That means she would have become an Olympian, run in the Olympic semis in the 4x400, and would get an Olympic gold medal when her teammates won gold in the final.

                              Then later in the week at the Trials, she'd have a chance at making the team in the 400H. If she finished in the top 3 at the Trials in BOTH the flat 400 and 400H, she could drop the flat 400, run only the 400H at the Olympics, and still be in the 4x400 relay pool. Which would get her a gold in the 4x400 and possibly a bronze in the 400H.

                              Little hitting a hurdle at the Trials and finishing 4th is understandable. Those things happen sometimes. What isn't understandable is why she threw away an almost guaranteed chance to be a first time Olympian and win an Olympic gold medal by deciding to skip the flat 400 at the Trials, when the only possible downside would have been she might be a little tired and run the 400H .1 slower at the Trials, which wouldn't make a difference.
                              Little couldn't even handle 3 rounds of 400h without melting down. She and her people must have known that if you add 3 rounds of 400m a few days earlier she would be in real trouble, especially in the heat. Never assume you know more than the athlete and their advisors: of course, unless you have been in a similar situation which we are not aware of. And, "dumb" is a 4 letter word.

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                              • Originally posted by cigar95 View Post
                                Sydney did 14 strides through hurdle 5, and then finished the race on her right lead for 5-10.

                                For those who follow her more closely, which leg is her favored leg? If she could get 14 strides to 6, that would have her finishing on the left lead.
                                McLaughlin's favored lead leg is her right leg. She is still more comfortable leading with her right leg, although her left leg is obviously much better than it was in 2019.

                                I doubt she would want to run 14 steps through 6 hurdles, and led with her left leg for the rest of the race. (Well, not on purpose anyway.)

                                Right now, her two best choices are 14 steps through hurdle 5, or 14 steps through hurdle 7, because either way she would be able to run the rest of the race with 15 steps using her right leg as the lead leg over every hurdle.

                                At this point in her career, I think that she made the right choice to only run 14 steps through hurdle 5, because that's obviously good enough to set the world record. She is young and has time to experiment with 14 steps through hurdle 7 in the future.

                                Interestingly, I noticed that McLaughlin mentioned that she has studied how Edwin Moses took the same number of steps (13) between each hurdle. I wonder if in the back of her mind she thinks that one day she might be able to do 14 the whole race?

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