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Benjamin vs. Warholm, when? .... not Monaco

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  • bobguild76
    replied
    Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post

    Warhorse has an incredible opportunity here. With OGs and WCs in the next 3 years he could come out with 2 OG Golds and 4 WC Golds and the WR by the time he is 28. And if he can do that with this comp. then that GOAT status is his in my view. Is there a WC in 2023?
    2 OG golds (should have been 3) and an OG bronze. 2 WC golds. 4 WRs. 107 finals victories in a row over 10 years. Edwin Moses isn't moving over anytime soon.

    Granted, KW is amazing, as is RB. But when it comes to 400H GOAT, he has a long way to go. If, as you say, in 2025, he has 2 OG golds, another 3 WRs, and an unbeaten streak still going, then we can consider putting him in Moses territory.
    Last edited by bobguild76; 07-03-2021, 04:35 PM.

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  • Rack
    replied
    Code:
     RT    H1   H2    H3    H4    H5    H6    H7    H8    H9    H10 Final
    0.235 5.90 9.63 13.50 17.38 21.23 25.23 29.20 33.33 37.63 42.00 46.83
    0.163 5.72 9.24 12.82 16.50 20.32 24.24 28.34 32.52 36.92 41.60 46.70
    
    S-H1 H1-2 H2-3 H3-4 H4-5 H5-6 H6-7 H7-8 H8-9 H9-10 H10-F Final
    5.90 3.73 3.87 3.88 3.85 4.00 3.97 4.13 4.30 4.37 4.83 46.83
    5.72 3.52 3.58 3.68 3.82 3.92 4.10 4.18 4.40 4.68 5.10 46.70
    I did the 10 hurdle splits for Rai and compared them to Vinc_Guyot's splits for KW. It really is a tale of two strategies! Where can Rai find .14 seconds? Reaction time and between H5 and H6 look like prime candidates. His run-in is ridiculous, he must have some gas left in the tank to be able to do that.
    And KW, how would you optimize his race? It seems he can 13 step and hit between 4.2 and 4.4 second splits between hurdles even as deep as to the 9th hurdle. When he flips to 15, you see 4.5 and 4.6 splits. Can KW not spend a tenth early on to get back two tenths between H9 and 10 13-stepping it? It definitely is captivating, I'll tell you that much!

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  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    I think it will be celebrated in America .......
    No it won't. Probably most Americans don't even know where Norway is, let alone have any idea who Warholm is.

    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    I, for one, am THRILLED by both equally.
    And on that, I am in complete agreement with you.

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  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    Late to the show, but Grasshopper covered it perfectly.
    I also noticed that while previously, KW had been overstriding to the first hurdle, he didn't do that here, so fixing the first and last hurdle is a huge advantage to running even faster.
    My other comment is that KW makes himself vulnerable by going out so fast. All RB has to do is be with 5m of KW at the 300 mark and he can run him down. I assume KW knows that and will try even harder to be too far ahead to get caught, which further weakens him at the end. But if he 'paces' himself better in the first 300, then RB will be with him at 300m, and we're back with the original problem: RB has the better finish.
    It's a great puzzle to solve, and I have no idea who will win in Tokyo - they are both ultra-awesome runners. Whoever wins is on his way to GOATship.
    400IH-GOAT.JPG

    From the above table, RB is a long, long way from even beginning to talk about GOAT. He hasn't won anything yet of note, or set a WR. And if he wins in Tokyo with a WR, he will still be behind KW, and the proverbial country mile from Moses.

    If KW, wins in Tokyo and sets a WR, he is definitely on his way to becoming GOAT, although I still believe, based on the table above, Moses will still be the GOAT, although KW will be breathing down his neck.

    Going undefeated (122 times) for nearly 10 years, is crazy incredible. And if it hadn't been for Jimmy Cater, Moses would have had 3 Olympic golds. And if the WC's had started in 1977, he probably would have had 5 WC golds.

    KW is incredible, and my favourite to win in Tokyo, but he has some way to go to be GOAT.

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  • _Jay
    replied
    Originally posted by Fortius19 View Post
    hahaha, RB is ducking KW. He was all set to travel before KW set the WR. lol
    Well…good thing there is kind of a big meet in three and a half weeks that they both signed up for. 😉

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  • Fortius19
    replied
    hahaha, RB is ducking KW. He was all set to travel before KW set the WR. lol

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  • Steele
    replied
    Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post

    Warhorse has an incredible opportunity here. With OGs and WCs in the next 3 years he could come out with 2 OG Golds and 4 WC Golds and the WR by the time he is 28. And if he can do that with this comp. then that GOAT status is his in my view. Is there a WC in 2023?
    "Well, Edwin, what do you say about this Warholm guy?"

    "Who?"

    Leave a comment:


  • proofs in the pudd'in
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    Late to the show, but Grasshopper covered it perfectly.
    I also noticed that while previously, KW had been overstriding to the first hurdle, he didn't do that here, so fixing the first and last hurdle is a huge advantage to running even faster.
    My other comment is that KW makes himself vulnerable by going out so fast. All RB has to do is be with 5m of KW at the 300 mark and he can run him down. I assume KW knows that and will try even harder to be too far ahead to get caught, which further weakens him at the end. But if he 'paces' himself better in the first 300, then RB will be with him at 300m, and we're back with the original problem: RB has the better finish.
    It's a great puzzle to solve, and I have no idea who will win in Tokyo - they are both ultra-awesome runners. Whoever wins is on his way to GOATship.
    It seems with this 15 steps to 10 he has found his sweet spot. RB will have to make up at least a second in that last 200. If KW strength can increase a little (peak wise) at the games he might just hold him in the home stretch.

    Leave a comment:


  • proofs in the pudd'in
    replied
    Originally posted by Steele View Post
    There will be two GOATs then, because the first one ain't giving up his horns anytime soon.
    Warhorse has an incredible opportunity here. With OGs and WCs in the next 3 years he could come out with 2 OG Golds and 4 WC Golds and the WR by the time he is 28. And if he can do that with this comp. then that GOAT status is his in my view. Is there a WC in 2023?

    Leave a comment:


  • Steele
    replied
    There will be two GOATs then, because the first one ain't giving up his horns anytime soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Atticus
    replied
    Originally posted by steve View Post
    I wonder if it helps him maintain a slower decline in speed and set him up better to smoothly clear #10 without having to long jump it, for lack of a better expression. Atticus? We need your expertise.
    Late to the show, but Grasshopper covered it perfectly.
    I also noticed that while previously, KW had been overstriding to the first hurdle, he didn't do that here, so fixing the first and last hurdle is a huge advantage to running even faster.
    My other comment is that KW makes himself vulnerable by going out so fast. All RB has to do is be with 5m of KW at the 300 mark and he can run him down. I assume KW knows that and will try even harder to be too far ahead to get caught, which further weakens him at the end. But if he 'paces' himself better in the first 300, then RB will be with him at 300m, and we're back with the original problem: RB has the better finish.
    It's a great puzzle to solve, and I have no idea who will win in Tokyo - they are both ultra-awesome runners. Whoever wins is on his way to GOATship.

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post

    21.2 and 20.2 on my watch

    Makes me think Benjamin has a lot more upside at this point.
    Or that Warholm has more upside if he gets out a bit slower than he did in that race.

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  • guru
    replied
    Originally posted by guru View Post

    What are the chances they both make it to the start line in Monaco? lol

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  • gh
    replied
    Benjamin not going to Europe... story linked on home page

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  • proofs in the pudd'in
    replied
    Thanks to Rack and Grasshopper for the explanations - makes complete sense. He seemed to be very good with this approach and obviously works well for him.

    Leave a comment:

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