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  • #61
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
    But if what McPherson is saying is true, it means WA is first letting countries submit 3 athletes who have the standard, without considering anybody without it. Then only if the field size isn't completely filled by standard-bearers, they start looking at world rankings. Theoretically, it would mean the athlete ranked #1 without the standard would get left at home if the field size can be filled entirely with standard-bearers.
    In the 400hs Italy has selected Linda Olivieri (with no standard but #26 in the ranking) instead of Ayomide Folorunso (who has the entry standard).
    So it seems it is possible to name someone with world ranking spot instead of someone with the standard.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by TN1965 View Post

      So no one here is questioning Muir's... "wisdom" of trying to run a 8/15 double?
      I spoke to her about this last week. It was always in her plan. Schedule isn't ideal but she never has to race twice on the same day. Personally I'd rather she just did the 1500m (Especially as we have 2 other qualifiers in the 800m) but trust her judgement.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ItalianFan View Post

        In the 400hs Italy has selected Linda Olivieri (with no standard but #26 in the ranking) instead of Ayomide Folorunso (who has the entry standard).
        So it seems it is possible to name someone with world ranking spot instead of someone with the standard.
        Olivieri is their highest ranked athlete in the event without the standard, whereas McPherson is the 2nd-highest ranked US athlete without it. So that still raises the question of whether it's possible for a country to skip their highest ranking non-standard athlete and directly name the next lower one, without having to wait for WA to send out another round of invitations.

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        • #64
          When does US team get officially announced? I'm still confused by how it's being selected.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ItalianFan View Post

            In the 400hs Italy has selected Linda Olivieri (with no standard but #26 in the ranking) instead of Ayomide Folorunso (who has the entry standard).
            So it seems it is possible to name someone with world ranking spot instead of someone with the standard.
            That makes sense, because otherwise you could get a situation where an athlete, who qualifies by ranking, is not able to be selected because another athlete from the same country, who is not fit to compete, has the standard.

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            • #66
              With there being no public announcement of the US team yet, either McPherson heard directly from USATF or USOPC that she wasn't selected, or she looked at the names on the World Athletics site and drew her own conclusion (which may turn out to be inaccurate).

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              • #67
                from the WA press release when the Q period ended:

                <<The Road to Tokyo tool on the World Athletics website shows which athletes – subject to being officially selected by their national Olympic committee – have qualified to compete at the Olympic Games.

                The tool identifies the first three qualifiers per nation (in bold) but any athlete who has qualified can be selected within the limit of three per nation. As this is a qualification monitoring tool, not an entry monitoring tool, it won't highlight which athletes have been officially selected by their national Olympic committee, but team announcements of many of the leading nations will be published on the World Athletics website in the weeks leading up to the Games.>>

                people keep assuming the Road site is listing team members when it's not

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                  But if what McPherson is saying is true, it means WA is first letting countries submit 3 athletes who have the standard, without considering anybody without it. Then only if the field size isn't completely filled by standard-bearers, they start looking at world rankings. Theoretically, it would mean the athlete ranked #1 without the standard would get left at home if the field size can be filled entirely with standard-bearers.
                  Correct and this would show up on the road to tokyo site.

                  As mentioned by a few, I'm still wondering if McPherson is looking at the rankings and assuming she's not on the team.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                    Olivieri is their highest ranked athlete in the event without the standard, whereas McPherson is the 2nd-highest ranked US athlete without it. So that still raises the question of whether it's possible for a country to skip their highest ranking non-standard athlete and directly name the next lower one, without having to wait for WA to send out another round of invitations.
                    The problem for McPherson at this moment is that she's not ranked high enough to be a field filler outer (as Olivieri is above). She misses by one. So without entries being made at this point she's on the outside looking in. If the US enters their team and doesn't include Townsend then McPherson should get the next slot and be in. As has been pointed out, there are some timing issues involved here which could blow the assumptions out of the water so I guess we'll see.

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                    • #70
                      Here are what I think are the applicable qualificatio/entry rules from the WA site:

                      .Following the end of the qualification period, World Athleticsshall confirm the number of athletes having achieved the entry standard plus the approved unqualified athletes and shall subsequently determine the athletes qualified by virtue of their World AthleticsWorld Rankings position. The final list of qualified athletes and relay teams for each event shall be published on the World Athletics website on1 July 2021.NOCs shall enter all athletes to Tokyo 2020 by the entries deadline of 5July 2021.
                      NOCs must inform World Athletics of their intention to decline a quota place, whether in individual or relay events, by the closing date of their respective qualification periods, i.e.31 May 2021 for the Marathon and 50km Race Walk, and 29 June 2021 for all other events. Notifications must be sent to [email protected]by the Member Federation concerned, with a copy to its respective NOC, by no later than midnight Monaco time on the relevant date. Quota places declined after the above deadlines will NOT be reallocated.If an allocated individual quota place is declined by an NOC, the quota place will be reallocated to the next best ranked athlete in the same event according to the World Athletics World Rankings, respecting the maximum quota by NOC per event. In case of tie (same world ranking position and ranking score), this will be resolved in favour of the athlete with the next best performance score
                      I read this as USATF should have not entered Townsend which would then have passed the entry on to McPherson as the next qualified athlete by ranking. aka decline a "quota place".

                      However, because the decline of "quota place" had to be done 2 days prior to the end of the rankings period, it is possible that USATF thought it best to enter all qualified athletes (of which McPherson was not one at that point) based on the June 29th date to ensure maximum athletes per event. This to protect against a situation of someone from another country passing McPherson within the last two days and the US limiting themselves to 2 spots in the wHJ.

                      BTW-entries due tomorrow which means we should find out the team over the next day or so.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                        I read this as USATF should have not entered Townsend which would then have passed the entry on to McPherson as the next qualified athlete by ranking. aka decline a "quota place".

                        However, because the decline of "quota place" had to be done 2 days prior to the end of the rankings period, it is possible that USATF thought it best to enter all qualified athletes (of which McPherson was not one at that point) based on the June 29th date to ensure maximum athletes per event. This to protect against a situation of someone from another country passing McPherson within the last two days and the US limiting themselves to 2 spots in the wHJ.
                        If that is true, it's a big flaw in the system. Countries should be able to see the final rankings list before having to make decisions on who to enter or withdraw.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                          If that is true, it's a big flaw in the system. Countries should be able to see the final rankings list before having to make decisions on who to enter or withdraw.
                          ....and the more I think about it, the more I think this will end up being the issue. I agree with you.

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                          • #73
                            I remind everyone that the USATF policy specified the JULY 1 version of the Rankings, which has come and gone. Can't someone sue if they use an 'amended' version of the list?
                            I repeat my original complaint, I think the verbiage of the policy was flawed for whatever their actual intent was.
                            Last edited by Atticus; 07-04-2021, 04:41 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                              I remind everyone that the USATF policy specified the JULY 1 version of the Rankings, which has come and gone. Can't someone sue if they use an 'amended' version of the list?
                              I repeat my original complaint, I think the verbiage of the policy was flawed for whatever their actual intent was.
                              Atticus raises an extremely important point. McPherson was a non qualifier as of July 1st on the rankings list (and current list).

                              If, after the close of the 2020 U.S. Olympic Trials, there is a place or are places in an event(s) on the 2020 U.S. Olympic Team that have not been filled, USATF will enter an athlete(s) or designate an athlete as an alternate, based upon their rank order of place finish at the 2020 U.S. Olympic Trials, and who are on the July 1, 2021 list of World Athletics Qualified Athletes*.

                              Note: *As best defined by World Athletics the qualified athletes list: A full list of athletes eligible to compete in Tokyo 2020 by virtue of having been granted a universality place, of having achieved the relevant entry standard and/or of their position in the World Rankings.

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                              • #75
                                McPherson got a direct call from USATF informing her that she was not selected.

                                Here is my take, fwiw...

                                With this process now being a selection based on ranking, and not necessarily finish at the Trials, Jelena Rowe is the athlete being 'wronged' to a greater extent. If the 'ranking' was strictly based on 2021 performance, Rowe is clearly the #2/#3 jumper in the US for the 2021 season. Tynita Butts-Townsend is enjoying a huge spike in her ranking based on her finish at the 2019 Doha WC's where she jumped a PB of 1.93 to finish 8th.

                                Jelena Rowe is a very young athlete (20y.o.) who has had a tremendous breakthrough season where she has jumped the Oly standard, and is one of three athletes to do so... (Cunningham, McCoy, Rowe)

                                McPherson is the vet with a tremendous history, and has to be applauded in jumping well when the pressure was on at the Olympic Trials, but her season has been indicative of an aging athlete.

                                Looking at the 2021 season only, Jelena Rowe is absolutely the #2/#3 jumper in the United States based on season average, and again, she has jumped the Oly standard. This is where the rankings going all the way back to 2019, is showing a flaw.

                                Let's also create a hypothetical... what if Rowe, or any athlete for that matter, simply had a one off circumstance at the Trials... illness, etc.? For simply that, an athlete who has been at the top of the event for the season doesn't deserve to go?

                                Here is the 2021 indoor/outdoor season for all three athletes...
                                Jelena Rowe
                                1.82
                                1.91
                                1.89
                                1.93
                                1.96
                                1.93
                                NH
                                Top 6 average - 1.906
                                Inika McPherson
                                1.82
                                1.90
                                1.85
                                1.90
                                1.87
                                1.93
                                1.85
                                1.85
                                Top 6 average - 1.883
                                Tynita Butts-Townsend
                                1.82
                                1.80
                                1.87
                                1.87
                                1.82
                                1.87
                                1.85
                                1.82
                                Top 6 average - 1.850
                                Again, I am looking at the 2021 season alone. After all, this is the 2021 Olympic Games. If my rationale is flawed, please feel free to point it out.
                                Last edited by sprintjump; 07-04-2021, 05:19 PM.

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