Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

High Jump Injustice at the Olympic Trials?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

    And why is that?
    Because it is the skills of the competitors which makes the competition important.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

      And why is that?
      Anna Ryzhykova (400mH), Elenor Patterson (HJ) and even Maggie Ewen (SP) all finished 3rd in the Stockholm DL, but their events and the fields are currently not created equal. Im sure there is a way using the WA points table at least to determine how competitive an event currently is and using that distribute an appropriate # of ranking points to each athlete accordingly. Take some years to figure these things out and when its clear, generally fleshed out and easier to understand for athletes then integrate it into actual qualifying for the biggest meet in the sport.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by ATK View Post

        Anna Ryzhykova (400mH), Elenor Patterson (HJ) and even Maggie Ewen (SP) all finished 3rd in the Stockholm DL, but their events and the fields are currently not created equal. Im sure there is a way using the WA points table at least to determine how competitive an event currently is and using that distribute an appropriate # of ranking points to each athlete accordingly. Take some years to figure these things out and when its clear, generally fleshed out and easier to understand for athletes then integrate it into actual qualifying for the biggest meet in the sport.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by booond View Post

          Because it is the skills of the competitors which makes the competition important.
          I guess I must be dumb because I still don't understand your answer.

          I thought HJ and 400H both required skill as well as natural ability

          Comment


          • #50
            BTW, some nation's championship events may be better than the OG and should be ranked as such.

            Comment


            • #51
              Had a read. Seems to this Antipodean bumpkin, a load of Elo-ngated gobbledegook

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by ATK View Post

                Anna Ryzhykova (400mH), Elenor Patterson (HJ) and even Maggie Ewen (SP) all finished 3rd in the Stockholm DL, but their events and the fields are currently not created equal.........
                But you you still haven't explained what those differences are. How were these 3 athletes treated/rated/ranked differently?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                  I guess I must be dumb because I still don't understand your answer.

                  I thought HJ and 400H both required skill as well as natural ability
                  The WA rankings use the same brush to paint all events in the OT or the OG or a DL meet but give more strength to the DL/WC/OG meets in the rankings.

                  We know in all those meets that some events are stronger than others.

                  There were years when the USA Championship final in the Women's 100m hurdles was as strong or stronger than the WC/OG and all DL meets but the ranking for those meets were higher because they consider a meet with one ranking not specific rankings for each event.

                  The women's HJ in the US has one medal contender and a bunch of field fillers whereas the w400h or m200 has three medal contenders or more when you consider the OT finals. Certainly, those events are worth more in a ranking than the women's HJ or men's Javelin where the USA team doesn't have a person considered a medalist but they are all considered equal.

                  The Istvan meet the other day was ranked an A while the USA OT was ranked a B.

                  This means that winners at Istvan scored 140 points where winners at the OT scored 100 points. Some events at Istvan were better but not all were and if you won at Istvan you were ranked higher than at the OT.

                  The system is too simple.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                    But you still haven't explained what those differences are. How were these 3 athletes treated/rated/ranked differently?
                    All events are indeed created equally, but when you look at the fields of, for example, Gateshead next week, some are loaded and some are very weak. Yet they all yield the same (high) amount of points for the Rankings.

                    The men's 100 Final at the Oly Trials counted less than many 100s at really weak meets or a weak 100 at a particular meet. That should be factored into the algorithm. It is not. And it just so happens that Europeans get more opportunities at those 'valuable' meets than any other group of athletes.

                    Thus the claim, one to which I subscribe, that the Rankings are both innately unfair and Euro-centric.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Some implementation of the elo concepts would greatly improve the world rankings.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                        But you you still haven't explained what those differences are. How were these 3 athletes treated/rated/ranked differently?
                        booond and Atticus explained it out. The point is they SHOULD be treated/rated/ranked differently, but WA currently isnt accounting for the differences in events, competition etc. When Ryzhykova is finishing with a top 25 time in history in a field that includes a field of ladies becoming the #4 and #5 in history, that should be accounted for.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Jeff Lynne is doing the rankings?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            The best part is once an improved system is in place the strength of events rely on the competitors who show up not where they show up.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

                              Jeff Lynne is doing the rankings?
                              If it was we'd be all Mr. Blue Sky in this thread instead of, "dude, Don't Bring Me Down."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by donley2 View Post

                                Some implementation of the elo concepts would greatly improve the world rankings.
                                Something in this vein is done in the World Golf Rankings. Each event is given strength based explicitly on the rankings of those who enter that event. In our case, we have much smaller fields but more events. Still, the process is automated so there ought to be a way to make it work.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X