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¶ 2021 wOG 200: Elaine Thompson-Herah (Jamaica) 21.53 (WL)

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  • Originally posted by J2thaD View Post

    It's questionable until it's duplicated. Thomas proved she is top level world class though, and not someone like the other two who's PBs should have an asterisk next to them.
    You mean it's questionable like every world record is questionable until duplicated?

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    • Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

      So, who are your top 5?
      Overall? I'd need to give it some more thought, but SAFP, VCB, Felix, Ashford, Ottey, Szewińska, Koch and Pérec are all contenders. Maybe others that are slipping my mind right now.

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      • Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

        By that logic Bolt's 9.58 and 19.19 are questionable, since they weren't duplicated.
        What is questionable is the dumb as statement saying her time is questionable until duplicated.

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        • Originally posted by Paced View Post

          Overall? I'd need to give it some more thought, but SAFP, VCB, Felix, Ashford, Ottey, Szewińska, Koch and Pérec are all contenders. Maybe others that are slipping my mind right now.
          Interesting. So now you have at best as number 9, the only female to have:
          * won the double double
          * won 4 individual sprint golds
          * entered and never lost 4 times


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          • Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

            Interesting. So now you have at best as number 9, the only female to have:
            * won the double double
            * won 4 individual sprint golds
            * entered and never lost 4 times

            World championships are a thing, and ETH has a sole silver out of 3 attempts (excluding the 2019 200m withdrawal).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post

              49.62 in Ostrava, Sept. 8, 2018.

              Caster SEMENYA | Profile | World Athletics
              Yes, that is the race that got the 400 on the restricted event list. The Caster rule was meant for Caster as the only DSD person - with the "have to prove advantage" standard - with the proven advantage. The courts actually had made her such a 5-7 year human experiment subject collecting data with and without testosterone suppression. Many had complained about Semenya in 2009 as not being female because of secondary sex characteristics. Mboma and Masilingi, Mboma especially, are not that obvious and could have gotten by without publicity had they never entered a restricted event that let everyone know their condition. They would have just been women with high testosterone but not doped. My contention in the counterfactuals is that Mboma would after this week have a world record in the 400 had it not been restricted, and had she not competed in the 400 internationally this summer so that the high-T condition was on worldwide display and had instead been concentrating on the 200, she with everyone else would have been celebrating her gold and a WR today as her condition would have been under wraps. Really, it took until the actual CAS ruling and evidentiary paperwork, something like 7 years to know what was really going on with Semenya.

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              • Originally posted by FleetingRedux View Post

                Mboma should be forced to lower her testosterone. It's not fair to the other ladies.
                While I have zero expertise on this subject, my layperson's take is that:

                1. This situation shows just how stupid the CAS decision is in only ruling out the 400, 800 and 1500.

                2. Semenya must feel really shafted that Mboma was still able to compete in an event that suited her, unlike Semenya having the events either side of her best event ruled out.

                3. If a person's testosterone levels are high because they have internal male genitalia then that person should not be allowed to compete in any female event; make that any female only sport.

                4. To be a female you need to be born with a vagina, uterus, womb; the basics needed for giving birth. And no male genitalia.

                And on this subject, while one can only admire Laurel Hubbard's graciousness:

                1. I am glad Hubbard failed

                2. Hubbard being allowed to compete and Semenya not, was nonsensical.

                3. The supreme irony is that a New Zealand 100% male won a silver medal in the women's eight rowing - as coxswain.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                  I don't think anyone was doubting her, but she was still over 1/4 second down on her Eugene time. Thompson and Mboma, on the other hand, set PBs.
                  I just don't get this incessant determination to run down, to denigrate Thomas, because she was 0.26 slower than her Eugene time.

                  I guess Mondo should be criticised for being 16cm less than his 6.18.

                  Or Juvaugn Harrison, or Kendra Harrison etc etc.

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                  • Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                    While I have zero expertise on this subject, my layperson's take is that:

                    1. This situation shows just how stupid the CAS decision is in only ruling out the 400, 800 and 1500.

                    2. Semenya must feel really shafted that Mboma was still able to compete in an event that suited her, unlike Semenya having the events either side of her best event ruled out.

                    3. If a person's testosterone levels are high because they have internal male genitalia then that person should not be allowed to compete in any female event; make that any female only sport.

                    4. To be a female you need to be born with a vagina, uterus, womb; the basics needed for giving birth. And no male genitalia.

                    And on this subject, while one can only admire Laurel Hubbard's graciousness:

                    1. I am glad Hubbard failed

                    2. Hubbard being allowed to compete and Semenya not, was nonsensical.

                    3. The supreme irony is that a New Zealand 100% male won a silver medal in the women's eight rowing - as coxswain.
                    Hear, hear!
                    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Paced View Post

                      Track78's question was about the greatest female Olympic sprinter only.

                      ETH wouldn't make my top 5 overall, but nobody has a better Olympic record than she does. 4 golds out of 4, all in incredible times against some of the all time greats.
                      No problem with what you have to say. What is the definition of sprints? Isn't the 400 described as the longest sprint - anaerobic zone? And bringing in males into a 100/200/400 ranking was only to emphasize how unusual it is for someone to excel in all three. The recent best on the male side would seem to be M Johnson and T Smith. What was MJ's best 100? And TS was held back by generally atrocious starts in the 100 - top speed few could compare with him. (Discussed in some detail on another thread).

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                      • The double double is in itself enough to give ETH a strong argument for being the GOAT female sprinter imo. I might be inclined to put Shelly ahead of her her but, yeah, this is a significant accomplishment and probably puts her above people like VCB, Felix, Ottey who have all those medals.

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                        • Originally posted by upchuckserious View Post
                          The double double is in itself enough to give ETH a strong argument for being the GOAT female sprinter imo. I might be inclined to put Shelly ahead of her her but, yeah, this is a significant accomplishment and probably puts her above people like VCB, Felix, Ottey who have all those medals.
                          ETH is not yet the GOAT. She is well on her way. She can use 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 to cement her status as the GOAT. She still needs more titles, especially at WC, and longevity.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by upchuckserious View Post
                            The double double is in itself enough to give ETH a strong argument for being the GOAT female sprinter imo. I might be inclined to put Shelly ahead of her her but, yeah, this is a significant accomplishment and probably puts her above people like VCB, Felix, Ottey who have all those medals.
                            I don't think either SAFP or ETH are done yet. SAFP has announced an end date, I hope ETH lasts as long.

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                            • this isn't' intended as a DSD thread.... please stick to racing.

                              Comment


                              • My original question was Olympic GOAT...I think ET bests SAFP already and back to back doubles is unprecedented. Not to mention those times.

                                As for all time GOAT, she still has a way to go. Shelly has 5 world golds, ET none.

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