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¶ 2021 wOG 200: Elaine Thompson-Herah (Jamaica) 21.53 (WL)

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  • Originally posted by upchuckserious View Post
    I think double double is a significant enough achievement to make her the GOAT if she gets two more global championship gold medals. Times are relevant too here, let's not forget, and she's now number 2 at both 100m and 200m.
    Earning 4 sprint golds out of 4 attempts at the Olympics is definitely significant, but it's also then significant that she has won only one silver medal at 3 separate world championships. Two more makes it 6 which still wouldn't make her the woman with the most titles, let alone overall medals.

    There are still people who consider FloJo to be the GOAT on the basis of how unreal she was in Seoul, but she never was for me because was still only dominant in one major competition. ETH this year posted times only secondary to FloJo in 1988, but has still *only* now been dominant in two. She's up there with those 4 golds, but she's got a long way to go to claim GOAT title, considering several of her contemporaries have had 4+ successful major competitions.

    She is what, the first woman to run sub-21.70 more than twice?
    Yes I think she has done so 3 times, whereas Ottey and Flo Jo did so twice, but this seems like a fairly arbitrary - why 21.70 as opposed to 21.80 or 21.90? What about the 100m?

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    • So, you're saying the criteria for GOAT should be having the most individual golds?Paced
      Originally posted by Paced View Post

      Earning 4 sprint golds out of 4 attempts at the Olympics is definitely significant, but it's also then significant that she has won only one silver medal at 3 separate world championships. Two more makes it 6 which still wouldn't make her the woman with the most titles, let alone overall medals.

      There are still people who consider FloJo to be the GOAT on the basis of how unreal she was in Seoul, but she never was for me because was still only dominant in one major competition. ETH this year posted times only secondary to FloJo in 1988, but has still *only* now been dominant in two. She's up there with those 4 golds, but she's got a long way to go to claim GOAT title, considering several of her contemporaries have had 4+ successful major competitions.



      Yes I think she has done so 3 times, whereas Ottey and Flo Jo did so twice, but this seems like a fairly arbitrary - why 21.70 as opposed to 21.80 or 21.90? What about the 100m?
      I think in all the events you can point to especially rare territory - like breaking 10.7 or 9.7 in the 100m. In the women's 200m, breaking 21.7 seems to be that rarefied area.

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      • Originally posted by upchuckserious View Post
        So, you're saying the criteria for GOAT should be having the most individual golds?Paced I think in all the events you can point to especially rare territory - like breaking 10.7 or 9.7 in the 100m. In the women's 200m, breaking 21.7 seems to be that rarefied area.
        I think the number of major titles, followed by number of overall medals, should be the single most important factor in determining the GOAT. Accolades (e.g. first woman to achieve the "double double") and # of performances below arbitrary time barriers shouldn't take precedence over actual titles.

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        • Congrats to ETH. Was too busy enjoying being back at home to post. Would love to be in Eugene next year. Just to say that I 100% agree with Turiaki's post on the DSD business. I could not watch the Rio W800.
          why don't people pronounce vowels anymore

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          • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
            Of course, there are many more combinations one could look at. Bottom line is: the double double in THE most prestigious competition in athletics, one double with the 2nd fastest times ever, is MAJORLY historic, and she has cemented herself as one of the greatest ever.
            I was going to make a pun on something heavy, but it might be construed as being in bad taste.

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            • Originally posted by Paced View Post

              I think the number of major titles, followed by number of overall medals, should be the single most important factor in determining the GOAT. Accolades (e.g. first woman to achieve the "double double") and # of performances below arbitrary time barriers shouldn't take precedence over actual titles.
              The double-double by definition is about actual major titles.

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              • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                The double-double by definition is about actual major titles.
                And it's those 4 titles that matter most, not whatever accolade is attached to achieving them.

                4 golds and 1 silver is incredible, but still leaves her pretty far behind the very greatest female sprinters throughout history. 1 more successful competition, with two further titles, would bring her inside my top 5 though.

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                • For me Thompson needs a 100m & 200m title over the next 2 World Champs. Defend her Olympic titles or retain one of then in Paris and she is the greatest for me. Easily.
                  Apparently Ignorance is bliss

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                  • US sprinter Gabby Thomas said the 'drastic' post-Olympic crash was 'the most shocking part' of her Tokyo experience (yahoo.com)
                    • US Olympic sprinter and medalist Gabby Thomas said she experienced a "drastic" post-Olympic crash.
                    • "Everything that I had been working for for essentially two years ... was just over," she said.
                    • Post-Olympic crashes and other mental health issues are common and increasingly discussed.

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                    • Different circumstances, but I remember reading that Steve Prefontaine had a post-Olympic depression that lasted 18 months.

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                      • Really ....where? First I ever heard of it.

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                        • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                          Really ....where? First I ever heard of it.
                          In Tom Jordan's book, "Pre."

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                          • I don't remember anything like that in the book. And 18 months? To early 1974?

                            Anyways it sure didn't effect him much.

                            This interview at the end is 5 months after Munich...he doesn't look depressed.

                            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YN-mkosAcGY
                            Last edited by Conor Dary; 10-07-2021, 09:01 PM.

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                            • Jordan wrote, "despite the support and good wishes of his community, he felt a depression resulting from his Olympic experience that was not to leave him fully for the next year-and-a-half."

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                              • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                                US sprinter Gabby Thomas said the 'drastic' post-Olympic crash was 'the most shocking part' of her Tokyo experience (yahoo.com)
                                • US Olympic sprinter and medalist Gabby Thomas said she experienced a "drastic" post-Olympic crash.
                                • "Everything that I had been working for for essentially two years ... was just over," she said.
                                • Post-Olympic crashes and other mental health issues are common and increasingly discussed.
                                The psychology here is really interesting and certainly affects some athletes more than others. With the Worlds being in Eugene next year, you would think this is a huge motivation for US athletes, but it's never that simple. What I did enjoy seeing about Thomas was her joy at her 200m bronze, when post US Trials she was being set-up by some in the media for gold. She had an attitude that any Olympic medal was a blessing.

                                You also wonder how athletes like Shamier Little, who didn't make the cut for Tokyo, react over the winter. She came back on the circuit with a vengeance, but will the break make her reflect and react differently? Then you have athletes like Michael Norman who got to Tokyo but in some way underperformed. How much does the doubt creep in, or do they go into the winter aggressively?

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