Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Zürich DL 2021

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IloveFelix
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    A. Maybe, but in IMO whether or not Bol is motivated is irrelevant to what SM does.
    B. See D.
    C. I could see that, in a one-off situation.
    D. I see SM as a 'generational athlete', like Mondo. But unlike Mondo's event, which even the GOAT, Bubka, could not stay undefeated, the 400H, as Moses demonstrated, and despite the fact that there are HURDLES in it, is an event that a great athlete can dominate.

    I may be wrong in this analysis, but I'm sticking to it till I see otherwise. I wish DM and FB all the best!
    A) Sure, Bol's level of motivations does not play into McLaughlin's. However, the point I was trying to make is that McLaughlin can remain motivated yet the gap can still be likely to close IF Bol is more motivated.

    C) I won't be at all surprised if Benjamin turns the tables on Warholm next year and does not only win a one-off, but clearly performs better throughout the season. Samba dominated Warholm in 2018, won H2H 6 times to 0, but has not beaten Warholm since.

    Yes, I know, Samba has struggled with injuries, but I guess most people are far from sure that an injury-free Samba would beat Warholm 2020, or even Warholm and Benjamin 2021? The point is that the relative strength of the athletes can change rather a lot from one season to the next. As the gap between McLaughlin and Bol is not that wide why would it be impossible for Bol to improve past McLaughlin or for McLaughlin to regress a bit? Considering how awesome McLaughlin was this season I think it entirely possible that she remains highly motivated and injury free, but even so are unable to duplicate her performances of 2021....

    D) I don't mind you sticking to your analysis, Atticus and rest assured that I actually respect your thoughts a lot. I don't post much on this forum, but I read rather a lot both here and on the forum of the Johnson brothers. The gulf in quality between the posters on these two forums is IMO immense. Really there is a ton of knowledgable posters on this forum.

    Still I feel I cannot really get to just how/why you have a arrived at your analysis, Atticus.

    I agree, McLaughlin feels in some ways like a generational talent.

    Is Warholm a generational talent? What about Benjamin? Would we have considered Benjamin a generational talent if Warholm had remained a decathlete? Is Muhammad a generational talent? Could it be that we in a few years conceivably will think of Bol as a generational talent?

    What sets McLaughlin apart from Warholm and/or Benjamin/Muhammad? For me the current pool of talent in men's and women's 400 hurdles is almost other wordly.

    Moses was something else, and I think his legend would have been even greater if not for the Moscow1980 boycott and if the World Champs had been held every second year during his career. His winning streak backs up your statement that it is possible to dominate hurdles events too. However even as it clearly is possible I think such dominance is less likely over hurdles than in flat races. For me Moses solved the 400 hurdles in a better way than almost all of his contemporaries. He kind of cracked the code of the race, he ran it smarter. I think this is part of the reason of his dominance and I think it would be harder to do the same today.

    The above should not be interpreted in any way as me trying to diminish the achievments of the GOAT.

    Sorry for raving on, but I still don't understand why/how you and several others have arrived at the conclusion that you cannot see ANYone beating McLaughlin for a while. Obviously not like you owe me an explanation, or anything else for that matter, still I would be plesed if you would explain as I am eager to understand.



    Leave a comment:


  • JMysterio
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    IloveFelix

    My response was to JMysterio's comment about Bol -- "I think her upside is very positive, they've built her strength sufficiently and as she is young that speed will improve as will her experience in running the event."

    I simply replied that McLaughlin's flat speed was greater than Bol and I doubted Bol would ever be faster in that way.

    I should have spelled it out, I suppose, that "flat speed" to me means the 100/200.

    Nowhere have I said that Bol can't beat McLaughlin in the 400H. It could happen. It likely WILL happen at some point.
    Yes but that's a critical omission, if any sprint speed comparison were to be used it would be the flat 400 and even that is not a complete certainty. Warholm is a better than average flat 400 guy and Moses never broke 45.

    I believe in Bol's case she is very tall for a woman in the event, especially with the height of the hurdles only 2 and a half feet. An increase in speed, once the steps are established is a huge advantage.

    Leave a comment:


  • JMysterio
    replied
    I would also like to say that only one human has ever won Gold in consecutive Olympics in the 400H. Now, Moses certainly would've won in 80 as that winning time might not have even won NCAA's, but factually only Glenn Davis has repeated.

    Leave a comment:


  • JMysterio
    replied
    Originally posted by ATK View Post
    Until we see McLaughlin and Bol hurdling with the quickness and efficiency Muhammad does, both will have tons to improve upon for the next 5+ years.
    Bol did beat DM in Lausanne after the Olympics. As did Little. Certainly an off race for DM, but Bol ran a much tougher schedule in Tokyo and showed no effects. Likely an age factor there, but it shows that anyone is vulnerable.

    Leave a comment:


  • JMysterio
    replied
    Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
    If they race multiple times a year, it is likely to happen at some point. After all, even Moses lost to Schmid.
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    After 122 wins . . . over 9 years, 9 months and 9 days of winning.
    I'm OK with SM losing after breaking that record.
    The streak was broken by Danny Harris in 1987. Schmid was the last one to beat Moses to start the streak.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATK
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Lover Lover View Post

    And this is why I have her to retain her title in Eugene. Given she had also had the injury and had Covid, it would have been lights out for Syd if Delilah was fully fit.
    100% agree

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Lover Lover
    replied
    Originally posted by ATK View Post
    Until we see McLaughlin and Bol hurdling with the quickness and efficiency Muhammad does, both will have tons to improve upon for the next 5+ years.
    And this is why I have her to retain her title in Eugene. Given she had also had the injury and had Covid, it would have been lights out for Syd if Delilah was fully fit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Atticus
    replied
    Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
    If they race multiple times a year, it is likely to happen at some point. After all, even Moses lost to Schmid.
    After 122 wins . . . over 9 years, 9 months and 9 days of winning.
    I'm OK with SM losing after breaking that record.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATK
    replied
    Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

    Seems to me McLaughlin has thus far eschewed the tour of Europe. No way of knowing if that will continue.
    I'm sure if 2020 or 2021 were normal years, she would have gone to Europe (as she did all through 2019, her first year as a pro)

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

    Seems to me McLaughlin has thus far eschewed the tour of Europe. No way of knowing if that will continue.
    She raced multiple times in Europe in 2019.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATK
    replied
    Until we see McLaughlin and Bol hurdling with the quickness and efficiency Muhammad does, both will have tons to improve upon for the next 5+ years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

    Seems to me McLaughlin has thus far eschewed the tour of Europe. No way of knowing if that will continue.
    why would McLaughlin or Vashti Cunningham not compete in Europe?

    Leave a comment:


  • NotDutra5
    replied
    Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
    It may depend on how often they race each other in the coming years. If they only race once a year like in 2021, it may not happen. If they race multiple times a year, it is likely to happen at some point. After all, even Moses lost to Schmid..
    Seems to me McLaughlin has thus far eschewed the tour of Europe. No way of knowing if that will continue.

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    Nowhere have I said that Bol can't beat McLaughlin in the 400H. It could happen. It likely WILL happen at some point.
    It may depend on how often they race each other in the coming years. If they only race once a year like in 2021, it may not happen. If they race multiple times a year, it is likely to happen at some point. After all, even Moses lost to Schmid..

    Leave a comment:


  • cajun5150
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    IloveFelix

    and as she is young that speed will improve as will her experience in running the event."
    .
    And Sydney is not young

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X