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  • Originally posted by ATK View Post

    Warholm - 44.87/45.05i
    Benjamin - 44.31/45.39i

    Serious question, how is close defined in this discussion? Bol is closer to McLaughlin's PB than Warholm is to Benjamin, but is 3 tenths in a 400m close?

    In the Tokyo Mens 400m, Zambrano and James were only 0.23 and 0.34 respectively behind Gardiner, but I didnt see many saying is was a close race for Gold.
    It's not defined at all considering neither Bol or SM run the flat 400 that much and have never raced each other at that event. This gm guy went off on an unrelated tangent.

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    • Originally posted by JMysterio View Post

      It's not defined at all considering neither Bol or SM run the flat 400 that much and have never raced each other at that event. This gm guy went off on an unrelated tangent.
      I think as noted above, close is pretty subjective. I do think SM and FB flat PBs are "close", but in an actual 400m, 0.30 is not a "close" margin of victory (again, see Tokyo Mens 400m final). But your right its hard to gauge as they haven't raced.

      But I do think flat speed is part of the conversation and not unrelated if we are comparing the ladies. Note that without her superior flat speed, McLaughlin would seldom, if ever, beat Muhammad.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bad hammy View Post
        In some post she's supposed to move to the long jump, no less . . .
        Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
        (I would have added Warholm but I guess he's actually talked off the cuff about doing that.)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ATK View Post

          I think as noted above, close is pretty subjective. I do think SM and FB flat PBs are "close", but in an actual 400m, 0.30 is not a "close" margin of victory (again, see Tokyo Mens 400m final). But your right its hard to gauge as they haven't raced.

          But I do think flat speed is part of the conversation and not unrelated if we are comparing the ladies. Note that without her superior flat speed, McLaughlin would seldom, if ever, beat Muhammad.
          Better to compare women who are are traveling at slightly different speeds to men in the last 50m: in the Tokyo final, Paulino finished 26/100ths ahead of Felix, and McPhersen finished 36/100ths ahead of Williams, so it's somewhere in between that, which looks to be 2m, possibly just over (I did a rough and ready screen freeze as they crossed the line, and measured the gap between them, based off their body length).

          For me, a 2m winning margin over 400m is not evidence an athlete is massively faster than the other.

          Re the Muhammad v McLaughlin comment, I would suggest that this season, with Syd's improved technique and speed over the hurdles, the speed differential between her and Muhammad might not be that different to 2019, as Syd is more efficient. I've still not seen any detailed analysis for them both, but with a 12.65 PB over 100mh this summer, one has to assume Syd's snappiness, getting her leg down quicker, and air time is all better than before.

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          • The Long Jump worked for many hurdlers, like . . . Grant Holloway.
            Maybe most (any?) of you never had to train for the 400H. It's mentally AND physically, soul-searchingly exhausting. Getting a side-hustle is a great way to keep motivation high.

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            • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

              I guess "close" is a subjective word but there's not that big a difference between 50.07 and 50.37 IMO.
              Flat speed in my book refers to 100/200. Actual sprint speed. Not the 400.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DrJay View Post
                Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
                My money would not be on Crouser . . .



                Comment


                • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                  The Long Jump worked for many hurdlers, like . . . Grant Holloway.
                  Maybe most (any?) of you never had to train for the 400H. It's mentally AND physically, soul-searchingly exhausting. Getting a side-hustle is a great way to keep motivation high.
                  Right....I remember that Edwin Moses had the same problem. Very sad.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DrJay View Post

                    Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
                    (I would have added Warholm but I guess he's actually talked off the cuff about doing that.)
                    I think they should all put their events on a card and draw lots to see what new event they should move to. After all Crouser already sounds worn out...

                    Ryan Crouser: "I think in the future, in a year or two, we could still see a 24-metre throw."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                      Right....I remember that Edwin Moses had the same problem. Very sad.
                      There are no more Edwin Moseses. He was a machine.
                      Comparing Karsten or Rai or Sydney or Dalilah or Femke to him is a non-starter.
                      When any of them get to a win streak over 100, call me.
                      There are already cracks in SL's psyche (no judgment!). As a fan, I want her to run the decade out - as a person. I just want her to be happy.

                      P.S. And yes, MANY of us want to see Crouser throw the Discus!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ATK View Post

                        I think as noted above, close is pretty subjective. I do think SM and FB flat PBs are "close", but in an actual 400m, 0.30 is not a "close" margin of victory (again, see Tokyo Mens 400m final). But your right its hard to gauge as they haven't raced.

                        But I do think flat speed is part of the conversation and not unrelated if we are comparing the ladies. Note that without her superior flat speed, McLaughlin would seldom, if ever, beat Muhammad.
                        The whole post was about Bol has a huge upside and can get faster. She's been a hurdler for less than two years and is at a different stage of her development. These tangential posts are just talking points.






                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                          There are no more Edwin Moseses. He was a machine.
                          Comparing Karsten or Rai or Sydney or Dalilah or Femke to him is a non-starter.
                          When any of them get to a win streak over 100, call me.
                          Did Moses ever have a rival comparable to the rivals that the current 400 hurdlers have? This summer 6 athletes run faster than the WR that existed prior to the start of summer.
                          Last edited by jazzcyclist; 09-15-2021, 05:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JMysterio View Post
                            The whole post was about Bol has a huge upside and can get faster. She's been a hurdler for less than two years and is at a different stage of her development. These tangential posts are just talking points.
                            A tree was planted yet new branches grew

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                              Did Moses ever have a rival comparable to the rivals that the current 400 hurdlers have? This summer 6 athletes run faster than the WR that existed prior to the start of summer.
                              As we noted in multiple threads about shoes and tracks, there are confounding variables at play here.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ATK View Post
                                A tree was planted yet new branches grew
                                In this case an apple tree and oranges grew on the branches.

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