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  • Atticus
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    [USER="30145"]1. Nowhere have I said that Bol can't beat McLaughlin in the 400H. It could happen. It likely WILL happen at some point.
    And just to be clear, I agree that it could and may happen, if my previous 'ifs' are not met.
    If everyone is fully fit and invested in the outcome, I (me, myself) see SM winning for some time to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • gm
    replied
    IloveFelix

    My response was to JMysterio's comment about Bol -- "I think her upside is very positive, they've built her strength sufficiently and as she is young that speed will improve as will her experience in running the event."

    I simply replied that McLaughlin's flat speed was greater than Bol and I doubted Bol would ever be faster in that way.

    I should have spelled it out, I suppose, that "flat speed" to me means the 100/200.

    Nowhere have I said that Bol can't beat McLaughlin in the 400H. It could happen. It likely WILL happen at some point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Awsi Dooger
    replied
    Here is a depiction of something I mentioned the other day, that to threaten McLaughlin in forthcoming years Bol needs to improve her hurdling technique and take more risks, with lower clearance on the front foot. Right now Bol launches while McLaughlin skims. Sydney is more balanced with both legs nearer the same level while Bol concedes that her lead left leg gets too high simultaneous with her trailing right leg too low. It is kind of like downhill skiing in which air time over a hill looks spectacular but is costing you time.

    This is Bol from yesterday's race in Bellinzona:

    https://imgur.com/a/gADyzBT

    This is Sydney from the Olympic trials:

    https://imgur.com/a/0zKTFOK

    Not the identical camera angle but as close as I could find, using recent races and the same point of clearance using the same lead leg. Bol right now looks similar to Sydney three years ago at Kentucky, when her clearance was also too high but I'd say slightly lower than current Bol. And Bol herself is noticeably lower and better than one year ago.

    Sydney has used sprint hurdling to flatten out her technique to the point it's like a hybrid of the two events. She is really getting her foot on the ground quickly especially toward the end of the race. The other day I read an account of the Tokyo race from a hurdles expert. He said Muhammad had that race won other than Sydney ran the last three hurdles far superior than she'd ever done before.

    BTW, I hope I can use that upload site here. Strictly convenience for me.
    Last edited by Awsi Dooger; 09-15-2021, 11:47 PM.

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  • Atticus
    replied
    Originally posted by IloveFelix View Post
    A. all things considered it seems more likely that Bol stays highly motivated than McLaughlin.
    B. Even so I fail to grasp why you cannot see ANYone beating McLaughlin for a while?
    C. Like I already have made clear I have no problem seeing Benjamin (and/or others) beating Warholm. Do you have a problem seeing that? If not, what is so different regarding McLaughlin?
    D. I am asking why you (not only Atticus) cannot [see SM beaten].
    A. Maybe, but in IMO whether or not Bol is motivated is irrelevant to what SM does.
    B. See D.
    C. I could see that, in a one-off situation.
    D. I see SM as a 'generational athlete', like Mondo. But unlike Mondo's event, which even the GOAT, Bubka, could not stay undefeated, the 400H, as Moses demonstrated, and despite the fact that there are HURDLES in it, is an event that a great athlete can dominate.

    I may be wrong in this analysis, but I'm sticking to it till I see otherwise. I wish DM and FB all the best!

    Leave a comment:


  • NotDutra5
    replied
    Particularly in the hurdles, I think it's easier to understand a top athlete losing because of the requirement to jump over something efficiently. One graze and you may be done. However, we've had these long streaks with Moses and Warholm which belie those thoughts.

    Leave a comment:


  • IloveFelix
    replied
    Understood Atticus, for me though all things considered it seems more likely that Bol stays highly motivated than McLaughlin.

    I suspect and hope that both will stick with the 400 hurdles a fair while longer.

    I hope all the athletes stay healthy.

    Even so I fail to grasp why you cannot see ANYone beating McLaughlin for a while? McLaughlin has run faster than Bol did in the Tokyo final a grand total of two times? The Tokyo final was not the perfect race for Bol. 21 year olds can for sure develop, especially the ones who have run over hurdles no more than 2 years, and on known form Bol is for sure behind, but not all that far behind McLaughlin.

    Like I already have made clear I have no problem seeing Benjamin (and/or others) beating Warholm. Do you have a problem seeing that? If not, what is so different regarding McLaughlin?

    I am not asking if you can or cannot see anyone beating a healthy and motivated McLaughlin. I am asking why you (not only Atticus) cannot.
    Last edited by IloveFelix; 09-15-2021, 10:36 PM.

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  • Atticus
    replied
    Too many ifs.

    If SM stays highly motivated.
    If SM just sticks to the 4H.
    If SM stays healthy.

    Then . . . I don't see ANYone beating her for some time.

    Leave a comment:


  • IloveFelix
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Why is it that you people think Bol has no chance of beating McLaughlin? I can see the statement being made several times, but I cannot see it being back by much at all.

    Anyone has a chance to beat Sydney....she might get lost....loses her bearings and thinks she should be at the long jump and heads over there. These things happen...
    Very funny. Still I would be happy to learn the logic behind statements like; Bol wont ever beat a healthy McLaughlin in a final. If you see the logic, Conor Dary, it would be great if you reply.

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Why is it that you people think Bol has no chance of beating McLaughlin? I can see the statement being made several times, but I cannot see it being back by much at all.

    Anyone has a chance to beat Sydney....she might get lost....loses her bearings and thinks she should be at the long jump and heads over there. These things happen...

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    In the same interviews above, Moses also said this.

    "I think athletes are afraid to lose; they think they’re going to lose marketing value when they lose. But at the same time the fans want to see the athletes. They don’t care if you win all the time."

    Yeah, it's easy for you to say that because you actually won all the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • IloveFelix
    replied
    I think Karsten Warholm has beaten Rai Benjamin the 4 times they have raced. Warholm is undefeated over the hurdles for more than 3 years. He beat Rai Benjamin by about 2 meters in Tokyo.

    After Warholm's 2017 London gold, I read a lot of somewhat similar comments that I now read about Bol. Warholm has a lack of speed, he would not have a snowballs chance in h... if K. Clement had been at the top of his game. Really a lot of people completely disregarded the atrocious conditions the night of the final and did not give Warholm much credit or prospects of development.

    Sydney McLaughlin has beaten Femke Bol the one time they have raced? McLaughlin beat Bol by about twice the distance Warholm won by.

    Femke Bol is clearly the least experienced athlete of these four over hurdles, which should leave her a lot to work on and a fair bit of room for improvement.

    McLaughlin has lived with extreme pressure as a young adult, for years. I commend her for releasing the IG-video. It would be awesome if more stars dared to let their guard down in such a way, many people need to see and understand that life can be hard for anyone. Honestly I am a huge fan of Sydney, I think she is awesome!

    Still the video makes me think that it maybe can be hard for Sydney McLaughlin to keep developing or even maintain her current level. I wont be shocked if she keeps getting better as she is young, but the video makes me less inclined to think so.

    Now I see Femke Bol faced with somewhat similar comments as the once that faced Warholm late 2017. For me it is obvious that most 21 year olds can develop their speed by a lot. Bol clearly has room for improvement in her hurdling technique. Some of her relay legs in Tokyo shows that she definitely can move without the hurdles too, over the relevant distance.

    I have understood that a lot of people find it impossible that Bol will beat McLaughlin next year, what I cannot understand is why.

    Why is it relevant that McLaughlin has better speed over 100-200, gm?

    Benjamin extremely likely has better speed than Warholm over those distances, still Warholm starts the 400 hurdles faster than Benjamin... The race is 400 not 100 or 200 and the way the athletes decides to run it is not only decided by their "flat speed".

    For me it is obvious that Benjamin has a clear chance of beating Warholm next year. I think dos Santos/McMaster have chances too, even as they seem to be further behind Warholm ATM than Bol is behind McLaughlin. I suspect dos Santos lacks flat speed, but as he is born the same year as Bol, I do not put it at all past him to improve it substantially....

    Why is it that you people think Bol has no chance of beating McLaughlin? I can see the statement being made several times, but I cannot see it being back by much at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Atticus
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Some....but wouldn't the theory here then be that since Moses was the all powerful Oz in the 400h ....the pressure would have been overwhelming.... amazing Moses didn't spontaneously explode mid race.
    Theory? Theory?! We don't need no stinkin' theory - we have facts that he was all that (and a bag of chips).
    He ate pressure on his cereal for breakfast!

    Know thy history!

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    "I would wake up at the morning, and in California we’re about nine hours ahead of Germany. I’d say to myself, ‘Harald has probably finished his workout by now, I need to get busy!’ Guys like him were my motivation."

    Barcelona Press Points: Ed Moses, Kevin Young and Harald Schmidt | NEWS | World Athletics

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Did Moses have anyone to push him the way the current hurdlers push each other?


    Some....but wouldn't the theory here then be that since Moses was the all powerful Oz in the 400h ....the pressure would have been overwhelming.... amazing Moses didn't spontaneously explode mid race.

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

    Did Moses have anyone to push him the way the current hurdlers push each other?
    This depends on whether Harald Schmid was a close rival or a perennial bridesmaid. Only Moses can answer that question.

    Leave a comment:

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