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  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by DrJay View Post

    Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
    (I would have added Warholm but I guess he's actually talked off the cuff about doing that.)
    I think they should all put their events on a card and draw lots to see what new event they should move to. After all Crouser already sounds worn out...

    Ryan Crouser: "I think in the future, in a year or two, we could still see a 24-metre throw."

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  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    The Long Jump worked for many hurdlers, like . . . Grant Holloway.
    Maybe most (any?) of you never had to train for the 400H. It's mentally AND physically, soul-searchingly exhausting. Getting a side-hustle is a great way to keep motivation high.
    Right....I remember that Edwin Moses had the same problem. Very sad.

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  • bad hammy
    replied
    Originally posted by DrJay View Post
    Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
    My money would not be on Crouser . . .



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  • gm
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

    I guess "close" is a subjective word but there's not that big a difference between 50.07 and 50.37 IMO.
    Flat speed in my book refers to 100/200. Actual sprint speed. Not the 400.

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  • Atticus
    replied
    The Long Jump worked for many hurdlers, like . . . Grant Holloway.
    Maybe most (any?) of you never had to train for the 400H. It's mentally AND physically, soul-searchingly exhausting. Getting a side-hustle is a great way to keep motivation high.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by ATK View Post

    I think as noted above, close is pretty subjective. I do think SM and FB flat PBs are "close", but in an actual 400m, 0.30 is not a "close" margin of victory (again, see Tokyo Mens 400m final). But your right its hard to gauge as they haven't raced.

    But I do think flat speed is part of the conversation and not unrelated if we are comparing the ladies. Note that without her superior flat speed, McLaughlin would seldom, if ever, beat Muhammad.
    Better to compare women who are are traveling at slightly different speeds to men in the last 50m: in the Tokyo final, Paulino finished 26/100ths ahead of Felix, and McPhersen finished 36/100ths ahead of Williams, so it's somewhere in between that, which looks to be 2m, possibly just over (I did a rough and ready screen freeze as they crossed the line, and measured the gap between them, based off their body length).

    For me, a 2m winning margin over 400m is not evidence an athlete is massively faster than the other.

    Re the Muhammad v McLaughlin comment, I would suggest that this season, with Syd's improved technique and speed over the hurdles, the speed differential between her and Muhammad might not be that different to 2019, as Syd is more efficient. I've still not seen any detailed analysis for them both, but with a 12.65 PB over 100mh this summer, one has to assume Syd's snappiness, getting her leg down quicker, and air time is all better than before.

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  • DrJay
    replied
    Originally posted by bad hammy View Post
    In some post she's supposed to move to the long jump, no less . . .
    Yes, too much success so I think it's time for McLaughlin, Rojas, Mondo, and Crouser to move up to the 800.....
    (I would have added Warholm but I guess he's actually talked off the cuff about doing that.)

    Leave a comment:


  • ATK
    replied
    Originally posted by JMysterio View Post

    It's not defined at all considering neither Bol or SM run the flat 400 that much and have never raced each other at that event. This gm guy went off on an unrelated tangent.
    I think as noted above, close is pretty subjective. I do think SM and FB flat PBs are "close", but in an actual 400m, 0.30 is not a "close" margin of victory (again, see Tokyo Mens 400m final). But your right its hard to gauge as they haven't raced.

    But I do think flat speed is part of the conversation and not unrelated if we are comparing the ladies. Note that without her superior flat speed, McLaughlin would seldom, if ever, beat Muhammad.

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  • JMysterio
    replied
    Originally posted by ATK View Post

    Warholm - 44.87/45.05i
    Benjamin - 44.31/45.39i

    Serious question, how is close defined in this discussion? Bol is closer to McLaughlin's PB than Warholm is to Benjamin, but is 3 tenths in a 400m close?

    In the Tokyo Mens 400m, Zambrano and James were only 0.23 and 0.34 respectively behind Gardiner, but I didnt see many saying is was a close race for Gold.
    It's not defined at all considering neither Bol or SM run the flat 400 that much and have never raced each other at that event. This gm guy went off on an unrelated tangent.

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  • JMysterio
    replied
    Originally posted by Jaguarclaws View Post
    I think they are talking about 100/200 speed folks. I saw Syd personally run 11.04 in Knoxville for UK. I doubt seriously Bol has that speed. I know Benjamin is a 20.00 200 guy and has run like 10.1 I believe. That is the speed some are talking about. However flat speed is great and all but Warholm has tremendous anaerobic threshold as does Bol , so I don’t know why this is a debate. Until Bol beats Syd or Benjamin beats Warholm it’s all a mute point.
    It wasn't a debate until one guy decided to make a couple of contentious posts. All I did was post about Bol's future and he either didn't read very well (which Wiederganger correctly pointed out about some posters) or he's an SM fanboy and was somehow offended. It was never mentioned about Bol vs SM flat speed. I invite anyone to read the post and you'll see it was about Bol's potential to increase her speed as her strength is no doubt sufficient based on the Olympic schedule and results she ran.

    I think any coach with a young athlete will build strength and endurance first, then concentrate on the speed aspect. At 21, there should be little question that Bol can get faster; I mean, 21 is a college senior in the states...an athlete can certainly improve their speed after that age, if they can't what would be the point in moving up to the next level?

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  • Jaguarclaws
    replied
    I think they are talking about 100/200 speed folks. I saw Syd personally run 11.04 in Knoxville for UK. I doubt seriously Bol has that speed. I know Benjamin is a 20.00 200 guy and has run like 10.1 I believe. That is the speed some are talking about. However flat speed is great and all but Warholm has tremendous anaerobic threshold as does Bol , so I don’t know why this is a debate. Until Bol beats Syd or Benjamin beats Warholm it’s all a mute point.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    Bol doesn't have near the flat speed that McLaughlin has, and I doubt she will ever come close in that department.
    I guess "close" is a subjective word but there's not that big a difference between 50.07 and 50.37 IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATK
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    Warholm doesn't have near the flat speed that Benjamin has, but 45.94 happened.
    Warholm - 44.87/45.05i
    Benjamin - 44.31/45.39i

    Serious question, how is close defined in this discussion? Bol is closer to McLaughlin's PB than Warholm is to Benjamin, but is 3 tenths in a 400m close?

    In the Tokyo Mens 400m, Zambrano and James were only 0.23 and 0.34 respectively behind Gardiner, but I didnt see many saying is was a close race for Gold.
    Last edited by ATK; 09-15-2021, 12:51 PM.

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  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    Bol doesn't have near the flat speed that McLaughlin has, and I doubt she will ever come close in that department.
    Warholm doesn't have near the flat speed that Benjamin has, but 45.94 happened.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post
    let me see if I have this right..... McLaughlin sets 2 WRs at age 21 and there's discussion that her reign is about over and/or that she needs to consider changing events because the competition is getting so tough?
    Where did anyone say that? Did anyone read the posts properly before (smart-ass) replies? We are not saying her reign is over - though some of us believe Bol can challenge her - and we are not saying she needs to change events. We are saying that we would not be surprised if she retired early or changed events at some point. (and we would actually love to see her try other events)

    For me, that IG video was very telling, and the fact that she hung her spikes up for the season after Tokyo tells me she is mentally and emotionally drained. For her as Olympic Champion to have no races after the Games, when there are so many meets to earn $ (including one big one in her own country), to give something back to the fans, to have fun, it tells me there is something wrong. And the IG contributed to that. If she is needing time out already, I don't see her running and dominating the next decade as some suggest. I say she bows out way before then, at 400mh at least. And yes, a bold statement, but so was her public IG meltdown.

    Leave a comment:

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