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Who will be the female athlete of the year?

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  • #16
    Rojas, daylight, McLaughlin, ETH, Hassan (I'm penalising her for spreading herself too thin), Comacho-Q, Allman, Kipyegon, Mu, Dong, Lasitskiene

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Paced View Post

      I don't see how Muhammad rates that highly. She wouldn't be in my top 10.
      .
      I don't think Muhammad should be down-rated just because McLaughlin was even better. Same with Rai Benjamin on the men's side. It will probably be between Warholm and Crouser, but Benjamin deserves a Top Ten for sure.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by noone View Post

        I don't think Muhammad should be down-rated just because McLaughlin was even better. Same with Rai Benjamin on the men's side. It will probably be between Warholm and Crouser, but Benjamin deserves a Top Ten for sure.
        But the sport is about winning. If you keep coming second in your chosen event, while others are dominant in theirs, you simply must be downgraded.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AS View Post

          But the sport is about winning. If you keep coming second in your chosen event, while others are dominant in theirs, you simply must be downgraded.
          I think it has to be more nuanced than that when you start going down the ladder. I'm not sure I would rank Muhammad below whoever the #1 women's javelin thrower is this year.

          Same on the men's side, I just cant see how El Bakkali (likely steeple #1) can be ahead of Benjamin overall.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ATK View Post

            I think it has to be more nuanced than that when you start going down the ladder. I'm not sure I would rank Muhammad below whoever the #1 women's javelin thrower is this year.

            Same on the men's side, I just cant see how El Bakkali (likely steeple #1) can be ahead of Benjamin overall.
            For AOY, IMO, only one athlete per event enters the equation.

            Therefore, that's why I have given no thought whatsoever to Muhammad or to SAFP.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Steele View Post

              The AOY crew loves a doubler. Puts some events at a disadvantage, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
              The 100/200, is like for men having a 6kg and 7.26kg shot.

              The 1500/500/10000 is like the men having a 6kg, 7.26kg and 9kg shot.

              Crouser would probably still win them all.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                For AOY, IMO, only one athlete per event enters the equation.

                Therefore, that's why I have given no thought whatsoever to Muhammad or to SAFP.
                But going down the line you can have athletes in the same event rank higher than athletes in other events. For example in 2019 T&FN ranked Muhammad #1 and McLaughlin #11, before anyone in the 100m, Pole Vault, Shot Put etc.

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                • #23
                  ETH.

                  Rojas is amazing but the depth of sprinting >>> triple jump. I know, I know, this is controversial, but that's my opinion.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by AS View Post

                    But the sport is about winning. If you keep coming second in your chosen event, while others are dominant in theirs, you simply must be downgraded.
                    Well said. It is possible, however, for 2 athletes in the same event to rank high in AOY, as in Coe & Ovett did in 1981. But they never met each other and both set WRs. That is not the case with Muhammad and Benjamin though.

                    Rojas is AOY in my opinion. Then McLaughlin & Hassan.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by noone View Post

                      I don't think Muhammad should be down-rated just because McLaughlin was even better. Same with Rai Benjamin on the men's side. It will probably be between Warholm and Crouser, but Benjamin deserves a Top Ten for sure.
                      As someone else mentioned, winning is surely key to this ranking. While I think it's possible to rank highly even if you don't win Olympic Gold as long as the rest of your season is impressive, Muhammad was also beaten at trials and then came 4th in her final diamond league appearance. She lost half of the finals she compete in.

                      As far as non-Olympic gold medallists go, her season wasn't nearly as impressive as SAFP's, and definitely wasn't as impressive as a whole number of people who did manage to win gold.

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                      • #26
                        There have been plenty of AOY rankers from the same event, even when they met head to head. The AOY is a vote, while the actual event rankings are a series of arguments. Even if someone is #2 in their given event, they can still rank in AOY if merited per the voters.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paced View Post

                          As someone else mentioned, winning is surely key to this ranking. While I think it's possible to rank highly even if you don't win Olympic Gold as long as the rest of your season is impressive, Muhammad was also beaten at trials and then came 4th in her final diamond league appearance. She lost half of the finals she compete in.

                          As far as non-Olympic gold medallists go, her season wasn't nearly as impressive as SAFP's, and definitely wasn't as impressive as a whole number of people who did manage to win gold.
                          Exactly. Line up Muhammad's season against Bol's, and IMO the latter's overall season is more impressive. The Olympics though, for many, is the decider, and probably rightly so, but the fact that Bol ran in 5 DL meets, was unbeaten in all of them - and beat Muhammad in one - whereas Muhammad ran in 2, and lost one, as well as the non DL meets and wins Bol had, takes some of the tarnish off Muhammad's season, and certainly I don't think she deserves a place over someone like Camacho-Quinn or Kigyegon.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gm View Post
                            Gong should get some mention for an unbeaten season, albeit primarily in China.
                            Same as McLaughlin though (obvs without a WR) who didn't compete outside the US except for Tokyo.

                            For me, as I have said before, three meets does not a season make. She had the opportunity to run after Tokyo, but decided not to. Had she run even at just Pre, that would have boosted her chanced of AOY, but for me, Rojas is clear number 1.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                              Exactly. Line up Muhammad's season against Bol's, and IMO the latter's overall season is more impressive. The Olympics though, for many, is the decider, and probably rightly so, but the fact that Bol ran in 5 DL meets, was unbeaten in all of them - and beat Muhammad in one - whereas Muhammad ran in 2, and lost one, as well as the non DL meets and wins Bol had, takes some of the tarnish off Muhammad's season, and certainly I don't think she deserves a place over someone like Camacho-Quinn or Kigyegon.
                              So you have Bol ahead of Muhammad?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ATK View Post

                                So you have Bol ahead of Muhammad?
                                I have them as very close. When one looks at the whole competitive season, Bol's is, overall better than Muhammad's IMO. However, Muhammad's silver over Bol's bronze in Tokyo is the tipping point for everyone. For me, probably as well, but outside Tokyo Muhammad's only races of any consequence were her national Trials & Pre. That's it. Whereas Bol had 6 DL wins (not 5 sorry), numerous meet records, & 3 Continental Tour wins, and was undefeated on the circuit. That's impressive.

                                Another angle:
                                Compare Bol's season to SAFP's, who some are arguing should be up there:
                                • SAFP also ran 9 races outside the Olympics & her NCs a mixture of DL and Continental Tour. But she lost 4 of those races, including a 3rd place and a 4th place.
                                • They both went up to 3rd place on the World All-Time Lists.
                                • SAFP has Tokyo silver, won in the 4th fastest time ever by the 2nd fastest all-time, compared to Bol's bronze in an event won in a WR by the fastest of all-time.
                                • SAFP ran the 3rd & 7th fastest times ever, Bol the 4th and 9th fastest times ever.

                                There is a lot of favouritism toward certain athletes & events, but when one breaks it down like this, the stats don't lie.
                                Last edited by Wiederganger; 09-21-2021, 03:16 PM.

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