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  • #46
    Originally posted by player View Post

    I think almost everyone would, in theory, favor the notion that xc runners who are showing extreme distress, particularly if they can't stay on their feet, "should" be removed from the field and attention focused on medical treatment.

    But, in practice, not that easy to implement. Are volunteers supposed to physically grapple with a runner who is determined to advance by crawling? And the medical facilities the runner needs (IV fluid apparatus and the like) are at the finish line. How do the volunteers get the runner there?

    There are hundreds of runners in any one xc race and runners collapsing before the finish in all kinds of weather conditions happens quite often in American high school and college xc. It's an unattractive part of the sport, particularly when put on national display, but not easily solved.
    I realize rules have to cover a variety of situations but I'd assume someone with a medical background would (or should) be sent out there to determine if the runner has an injury and is having trouble continuing or is potentially in a heat stress situation....or perhaps another serious medical situation such as a seizure. These are certainly driven athletes but there needs to be a point in which the choice is removed from them which doesn't wait until they are unconcious. Logistically they aren't getting to the medical facilities any faster by crawling rather than maybe being carried.

    My consternation was only exasperated by the comments of the announcers...one of whom probably should know better.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by JMysterio View Post

      No everyone doesn't do it. Course conditions and weather make all the difference. Check the winning times at Terre Haute when the meet was held there from 2004-2011. The winner ranged from 28:41 to 30:44. Are you going to say one NCAA champ is two minutes faster than another based on they ran the same course?

      The Virgin Methner comparison is very relevant because Virgin was a better hs runner than Methner yet Methner took down his record. Verzbicas was a better hs runner than Virgin but couldn't take the record down. To think you can accurately compare course times historically is guessing.
      Comparing runners from different eras is a fool's errand. But he broke Virgin's legendary record which is all that matters.

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      • #48
        My mentioning Chapa was not necessarily saying his run was better than Young’s, just saying there’s been at least someone in the same ballpark at that age. That 1976 race was the one where Rono ran 28:06. I seem to remember the magazine story about it describing it as a rolling course in Denton, Texas. Hard to know if it was a “faster“ or “slower“ course than Tallahassee, or similar. Quite a field that day. Rono, Kimombwa, Virgin, Lindsay, Tracy, Waigwa, O’Shaughnessy, Chapa, Munyala, Kimeli, Hunt, Bickford, Meyer, Malley, Hodge, Staynings, Marsh, and more.

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        • #49
          In the 70s the NCAA was a bigger deal than the WCCC. It was really tough to win with all of the African and European runners. I was at the 1974 meet in Bloomington and quite the field. Those were great days. 3 of us hitch hiked back to Chicago in the dark and had no problem getting rides.

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          • #50
            Right after I posted I thought of Chapa. Agree they are in the same ballpark so to speak.

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            • #51
              Someone mentioned Nico Young as if he's taken a step back this year. XC results are not always linear from year to year. Even Craig Virgin who, from a relative standpoint, was more head and shoulders above the rest of the prep world coming into Illinois than Young is going to NAU was 10th, 12th, 1st and 3rd in his 4 years in NCAA XC competition.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                Someone mentioned Nico Young as if he's taken a step back this year. XC results are not always linear from year to year. Even Craig Virgin who, from a relative standpoint, was more head and shoulders above the rest of the prep world coming into Illinois than Young is going to NAU was 10th, 12th, 1st and 3rd in his 4 years in NCAA XC competition.
                The NCAAs in those years were unbelievable with the world class East Africans at UTEP and WSU and the Brits like Nick Rose. Winning once was a big deal. There has been nothing remotely like it since.
                Last edited by Conor Dary; 11-23-2021, 07:07 PM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

                  The NCAAs in those years were unbelievable with the world class East Africans at UTEP and WSU and the Brits like Nick Rose. Winning once was a big deal. There has been nothing remotely like it since.
                  The first of WSU's Kenyan's was John Ngeno in the fall of 1972. Coach Chaplin sent me to pick him and fellow Kenyan, hurdler Kip Ngeno, jup st Spokane Airport.

                  They were later followed by Josh Kimeto, Samson Kimombwa, Henry Rono and Bernard Lagat.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                    The first of WSU's Kenyan's was John Ngeno in the fall of 1972. Coach Chaplin sent me to pick him and fellow Kenyan, hurdler Kip Ngeno, jup st Spokane Airport.

                    They were later followed by Josh Kimeto, Samson Kimombwa, Henry Rono and Bernard Lagat.
                    I remember them all well....

                    I once won a year's subscription to T&FN in 1995 by identifying everyone on a bridge in a photo during a Pac 8 meet from 1979 or so.

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