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    Halfmiler2
    Senior Member

  • Halfmiler2
    replied
    The latest on the bylaws dispute:

    After the delegates voted down the Temporary Amendments by 2-1 margins in early December, the Board that afternoon voted to adopt new similar Temporary Amendments to satisfy the USOPC. But they also passed a resolution to engage in compromise talks with the opposition and try to reach an acceptable consensus for the late February meeting of the Board.

    The opposition group sent over a proposed compromise based on what the USOPC has allowed in varying degrees for other sports. It is called a “carve-out” which lets the Board have the final say on routine bylaws and regulations, but gives the membership the final say on really important stuff. Of course, the key is the size of the carve-out and the dividing line.

    Meanwhile, a meeting has been called to discuss all this at USOPC headquarters in Colorado Springs on February 4th which is also the opening day of the Winter Olympics. About a dozen USATF persons have been invited including Olympic Racewalker Curt Clausen and Ed Koch as representatives for the opposition.

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  • Halfmiler2
    Senior Member

  • Halfmiler2
    replied
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post

    I didn't ignore anything but you seem to be ignoring the original premise that the education system, college in particular, is critical to producing the volume and quality of athletes that USATF counts in its performance stats.

    Sit down and imagine you keep doing all those things while the college sector closes down their programs, sacks their paid coaches and rips up their tracks. You've just lost all the support in the critical 18-23 age group. Are the activities of USATF by itself capable of producing the athletes that are currently handed to it on a plate?

    I'm sure there are examples of former great programs that have closed down and resulted in geographical areas that don't produce good athletes anymore. Just apply those examples to the whole country.
    I certainly recognize the critical importance of tge college and high school programs. One concern of all of us is some colleges dropping their track & field programs.

    I view it a bit like a relay team. The high schools and colleges have the middle two legs.

    One plus is that the NCAA and NFHS (which were often at odds with the AAU before 1980) are members of USATF and work together. It does not hurt that the NCAA and USATF are both based in Indianapolis.
    Halfmiler2
    Senior Member
    Last edited by Halfmiler2; 12-13-2021, 08:12 PM.

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  • gm
    Senior Member

  • gm
    replied
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post

    There's a clear implication that messing with USATF is messing with success.
    Read it again three or four more times, keeping in mind that "the membership of USA Track & Field" covers not only every elite athlete, coach and volunteer, but also pretty much anyone who is associated with the sport at the elite level or national championship level.

    I am confident that Rich P. knows exactly who and what is responsible for the U.S. medal count over the years.

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  • El Toro
    Senior Member

  • El Toro
    replied
    Originally posted by Halfmiler2 View Post

    You ignore:

    1. That the USATF Junior Olympic program identifies athletes with track & field talent that would otherwise be lost to other sports by the time they reach high school - other sports increasingly try to monopolize youth athletes;
    2. USATF provides the certified officials needed for all collegiate competition and in many states, high school competition as well; and
    3. USATF provides a Coaches Ed program that trains coaches, particularly at the high school level.
    I didn't ignore anything but you seem to be ignoring the original premise that the education system, college in particular, is critical to producing the volume and quality of athletes that USATF counts in its performance stats.

    Sit down and imagine you keep doing all those things while the college sector closes down their programs, sacks their paid coaches and rips up their tracks. You've just lost all the support in the critical 18-23 age group. Are the activities of USATF by itself capable of producing the athletes that are currently handed to it on a plate?

    I'm sure there are examples of former great programs that have closed down and resulted in geographical areas that don't produce good athletes anymore. Just apply those examples to the whole country.

    Leave a comment:

  • El Toro
    Senior Member

  • El Toro
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post
    I think you're reading something into that that isn't there.
    There's a clear implication that messing with USATF is messing with success.

    Leave a comment:

  • Halfmiler2
    Senior Member

  • Halfmiler2
    replied
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post
    There's an interesting bit of delusion in that Perelman article,



    Implying that the USATF has anything to do with the success of the sport.

    The reason the USA has success is the very effective development pipeline of the education system which nurtures athlete through to international standard for its own purposes and without any reliance on USATF. If you closed that down overnight, we'd see the true value of USATF after 5 years and it certainly wouldn't be 26 medals.
    You ignore:

    1. That the USATF Junior Olympic program identifies athletes with track & field talent that would otherwise be lost to other sports by the time they reach high school - other sports increasingly try to monopolize youth athletes;
    2. USATF provides the certified officials needed for all collegiate competition and in many states, high school competition as well; and
    3. USATF provides a Coaches Ed program that trains coaches, particularly at the high school level.

    Leave a comment:

  • gm
    Senior Member

  • gm
    replied
    I think you're reading something into that that isn't there.

    Leave a comment:

  • El Toro
    Senior Member

  • El Toro
    replied
    There's an interesting bit of delusion in that Perelman article,

    The membership of USA Track & Field – in the sport which has won more Olympic medals for the U.S. than any other – isn’t buying it.
    Implying that the USATF has anything to do with the success of the sport.

    The reason the USA has success is the very effective development pipeline of the education system which nurtures athlete through to international standard for its own purposes and without any reliance on USATF. If you closed that down overnight, we'd see the true value of USATF after 5 years and it certainly wouldn't be 26 medals.

    Leave a comment:

  • polevaultpower
    Administrator

  • polevaultpower
    replied
    https://www.thesportsexaminer.com/la...nnual-meeting/

    The USOPC is left with a clear defeat from a major National Governing Body, whose members will not be deterred from the governance of their sport. From its first days as an independent body then known as The Athletics Congress in 1979, the sport of track & field has had an involved, restless and sometimes insurgent membership and that has not changed.

    Leave a comment:

  • burbigo3
    Junior Member

  • burbigo3
    replied
    Hey, what do you mean by unclear ?

    ShowBox Tutuapp Mobdro
    burbigo3
    Junior Member
    Last edited by burbigo3; 01-16-2022, 03:38 PM.

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  • Halfmiler2
    Senior Member

  • Halfmiler2
    replied
    Good news at the USATF Annual Meeting. At the closing session, the delegates rejected the three USOPC items (including disenfranchising the members) by 2 to 1 margins. The margins were bigger than last year.

    Leave a comment:

  • Halfmiler2
    Senior Member

  • Halfmiler2
    replied
    I’d also remind you Conor, that in 1989, after the Ben Johnson scandal, USATF was the first entity in the entire world to create an out-of-competition drug testing program - and it did so with the leadership of athletes such as Edwin Moses. Compare that with our major pro team sports and other federations. Our sport in the USA may not be perfect, but it has tried more than others to address problems.

    I have it on very good authority that Mr Koch meant Our sport in the USA. :-) You have made your point. Now can we focus on the issue at hand?

    Leave a comment:

  • gh
    Administrator

  • gh
    replied
    back on topic, plz

    Leave a comment:

  • Tuariki
    Senior Member

  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    It's like saying the bombing of Dresden wasn't bad....Hiroshima was a lot worse.
    You really do have a serious problem if you really believe in this analogy.

    Leave a comment:

  • Tuariki
    Senior Member

  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    As for sexual assaults .... one of many....

    Larry Nassar's Victims Included Michigan State Track Athletes

    Several former Michigan State track and cross country athletes spoke out on abuse they suffered at the hands of disgraced MSU doctor Larry Nassar



    https://www.flotrack.org/articles/61...track-athletes
    This is not a TnF scandal. It is of course terrible that for so long Nassar was allowed to get away with the abuse. However, USTAF, to my knowledge, did not cover up and protect Nassar.

    MSU did. US Gymnastics did. That was scandalous.

    Leave a comment:

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