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  • #16
    Re: Lagat-holy shit!

    >> You mean only the people who actually face
    > ROUND spot tests.

    Yep, them -- like
    >CJ Hunter, Jerome Young, Carl Lewis...

    Heheehe. Jerome Young, tests positive, COMPETES IN SYDNEY AND NOW IN PARIS. Carl tests positive, AND YOU KNOW THE STORY. CJ isn't a sprinter, dude.


    • #17
      Re: Lagat-holy shit!

      Lagat is not our concern.

      Yes he is. Doped up runners have left many athletes in the West in a state of resignation, and potential stars disinterested, or in the position of having never given the sport a try, as they don't have the make up of genetic marvels like Lagat or Chepchumba : ).

      "Doctors have spent millions trying to figure out why I run fast." No, it wasn't millions.

      Yes, there's more fast out there ... hahahahahaa.


      • #18
        Re: Lagat-holy shit!

        This might sound naive...I know how EPO works as far as the physiology of it, but how much time do you think an athlete could take off of his mile time just by doping.


        • #19
          Re: Lagat-holy shit!

          Is there a positive to this? If they caught Lagat (and Chepchumba before him), can we presume the other Kenyans are clean? Or just less careless (or maybe they weren't tested at the same time)?


          • #20
            Re: Lagat-holy shit!

            What type of message are up and coming young athletes (like me) getting from all this? That you can't win unless your juiced? You wonder if you could put 21m or run 1:44 without some sort of drug in your system. It almost makes you lose motivation and that sucks!! Oh well cross Lagat off the list of athletes you like, along with white, lewis, young, barnes, hell are there any left?


            • #21
              Re: Lagat-holy shit!

              EPO? I'd think they would be smart enough to stop using a drug they have a test for now. I figured everybody would be using the new drugs that are better then EPO and which can't be tested for yet.


              • #22
                Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                >This might sound naive...I know how EPO works as
                >far as the physiology of it, but how much time do
                >you think an athlete could take off of his mile
                >time just by doping.

                For elites, probably 4 to 8 seconds, depending on how they respond to the drug. It has dramatic effects in the longer races. Look up Repoxygen on Google. You'll faint. They can't test for it. Probably not for awhile. They'll be snarfing that down before Athens.


                • #23
                  Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                  >Is there a positive to this? If they caught
                  >Lagat (and Chepchumba before him), can we presume
                  >the other Kenyans are clean? Or just less
                  >careless (or maybe they weren't tested at the
                  >same time)?>

                  It certainly sets aside the bs claim by the 'Kenyans don't drug because they don't have to' crowd.

                  Trust no one.
                  Suspect everyone.


                  • #24

                    I would be a bit carefull expanding on this subject, if I were you all.

                    Although I know the source of the story to be very credible usually, the fact is there is still only one (internet) source on the matter available: ... orts0.html

                    Strangely enough, another Kenyan newspaper website still carries the official Kenyan explanation that Lagat was sick. That was in a story also dated on september 3 (although both stories were posted september 2):

                    Nevertheless, the way Lagat supposedly left the Kenyan team is a bit 'curious':

                    Regards, Wilmar Kortleever

                    Lagat failed drugs test, says IAAF
                    Athletics Kenya decided to keep the matter secret
                    By PETER NJENGA
                    Bernard Lagat: Tested positive for EPO .

                    Olympic Games 1,500m bronze medallist Bernard Lagat tested positive for drugs, the International Association of Athletics
                    Federations (IAAF) has said.

                    Lagat left the Kenyan camp in Paris immediately after his team officials were informed that the runner had tested positive for a
                    performance enhancing drug, Erythropoietin (EPO), two weeks before the world championships began.

                    The runner, who had transported his parents to Paris to watch him run, took a low profile for the rest of the championships.

                    Team manager Alf Kimani said a decision was made by Athletics Kenya officials to withhold the information from the rest of
                    the team so that morale was not affected.

                    The team was instead, informed that Lagat was suffering from a stomach ailment.

                    Kimani, a medical doctor, was informed on August 21 that the 'A' Sample of Lagat's urine had tested positive for the
                    performance-enhancing drug.

                    This was a day after the team arrived in France for the August 23-31 championships.

                    After discreet consultations, Athletics Kenya decided to withdraw Lagat from the championships, citing medical reasons. Not
                    even sports minister Najib Balala, who visited the athletes at the camp, was informed of the devastating news.

                    "The team's spirit would have been broken," said Kimani, who said they were now awaiting the outcome of a test carried out
                    on Lagat's 'B' sample.

                    Kimani had spoken with Lagat and broke the news to him shortly after the Kenya team was accredited for the games.

                    Athletics Kenya will meet today in Nairobi to discuss the Lagat issue.

                    "A statement will be issued later," said Mr Kimani.

                    Kimani said they had to agonise for long hours before making a decision. "We had his parents here (in Paris). The team and I
                    decided to do what was best for Kenya."

                    Kimani, also the chairman of the Athletics Kenya medical commission, said it would have been morally wrong to go public with
                    the news when Lagat's parents were in town. His mother and father were accredited as part of the Kenyan team but were
                    staying with Lagat at a hotel.

                    Lagat was expected to be Moroccan Hicham El Guerrouj's greatest threat in the 1,500m. In his absence, El Guerrouj not only
                    won his fourth world title, but also won a silver medal in the 5,000m.

                    Lagat, based in the United States, finished third in the national trials behind Paul Korir and Isaac Songok. He won won a silver
                    medal at the world championships in Edmonton, Canada two years ago.

                    Four months ago, Pamela Chepchumba, a cross-country runner, was suspended from international competitions for two years
                    when she tested positive for EPO. She denied she had taken the drug but the B sample turned out positive.

                    Erythropoietin is a naturally occurring hormone, produced by the kidneys, which stimulates the body to produce more red
                    blood cells.

                    The purpose of the red blood cell is to deliver oxygen to the body.

                    The drug is often introduced to the body artificially by injection to increase the volume of oxygen in the body, thereby boosting

                    EPO is used to treat anaemia. It has become more widely known as a drug used by athletes but its use in sport is illegal and can
                    be detected through tests.

                    Low key reception for team
                    By Gilbert Wandera


                    The Kenyan team to the just concluded world athletics championships in Paris arrived back home yesterday to a low key
                    reception. Unlike in previous events there were no traditional dancers to welcome the athletes back home. The normal gourd of
                    milk and garlands for medalists were absent.

                    The fact that none of the medalists returned back home yesterday added to sombre mood at the Jomo Kenyatta International
                    Airport (JKIA). A few government officials and top Athletics Kenya officials were at hand to welcome back the team. The
                    team was later treated to snacks at Riadha House.

                    Elsewhere, Alfred Kimani who managed the team to the championships said he withdrew from the event former world 1,500m
                    silver medalist Bernard Lagat after the runner fell ill.

                    Kimani said even though the athlete insisted on running he had turned him down due to his condition.

                    "I withdrew him from the race after he failed a medical test," said Kimani who also doubled up as the team doctor.

                    Kimani said Lagat had an option of staying with the team in camp after being withdrawn from the championships.

                    "The athlete decided to leave the camp on his own even though he could have stayed with the team if he wanted to," said

                    Lagat ordered out of the Kenyan camp
                    By Chris Mbaisi



                    World 1500m silver medalist, Bernard Lagat, has been ordered out of Kenya camp in Paris, France, officials said yesterday.

                    Speaking on the telephone from Paris, team manager, Alf Kimani said they have ordered him to return home with immediate

                    "I have told him to leave immediately. I don’t want to see him here," said an agitated Dr Kimani, also team doctor.

                    Pressed to give details, Kimani said the issue was not a simple one and can only be solved back home. He did not elaborate.
                    Lagat pulled out of the 1500m race in the ongoing World Championships after developing a stomach bug. He is said to have
                    fallen ill with a stomach upset on Thursday night. Lagat is said to have flown his parents to Paris in anticipation that he would
                    dethrone the reigning champion and world record holder, Hicham El-Guerrouj.

                    His exit from the team left former world youth champion, Isaac Songok and Paul Korir to continue with the fight. They were
                    expected to take part in the semi-finals last night.

                    Meanwhile, assistant team manager, Ibrahim Hussein, yesterday defended the Kenyan 10,000 metres runners saying the pace
                    was too high for them.

                    He said the Ethiopians came with an agenda and achieved it.

                    "The runners had trained properly but their plans did not work out," he said. He said although they were disappointed, they do
                    not want to dwell on their defeat too much "as it will bog us down," he added.

                    Kipkemboi said that they hope to avenge the defeat in the 5000m.

                    "I know Bekele is now tired after posting 26:49.57 and we will take advantage to get our revenge," he said.

                    He said the Ethiopians had employed the same tactics in the women’s 10,000m to beat Kenya’s Selina Kosgei. Besides, he
                    said Kosgei, who was the sole Kenyan represenattive in the event had panicked as she did not have anyone to give her a push.

                    Hussein also confirmed that Faith Macharia had made her exit in the semi finals after finishing fourth in her heat. He said hopes
                    were very high in the 3000m steeplechase as Ezekiel Kemboi was enjoying top form. "Contrary to what people are talking
                    about, this is going to be a very close fight between the Cherono brothers, Abraham and Stephen, who will be representing
                    Qatar," he added.

                    Meanwhile, five-time world cross country champion, Paul Tergat and Moses Tanui yesterday expressed disappointment over
                    Kenya’s performance in the men’s 10,000m.

                    The two described the results as the worst Kenya has ever posted in any World Championships. Ethiopians won all the three

                    Kenenisa Bekele took gold, Haile Gebrselassie settled for the silver and Sileshi Sihine bronze.

                    The top Kenyan in the race was John Korir, who finished fifth while outgoing champion, Charles Kamathi faded to seventh

                    Tergat, who is a two-time silver medalist over the distance, said Kenyans looked tired throughout the race.

                    Tergat said there was an element of inferiority complex on the part of Kenyans.

                    "They seemed to be in a state of panic and Ethiopians took advantage of this to outrace them," he added. He said unlike the
                    Ethiopians, Kenyans lacked team work. He said Kenyans need to meet after the World Championships to do a post-mortem.

                    "They need to sit down and see where we have gone wrong, otherwise things are getting out of hand," he added.


                    • #25
                      Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                      Big-Mac...........keep running and enjoy. Don`t let all this talk get to you.


                      • #26
                        Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                        The Kenyans seemed almost ordinary at the Worlds -- no wins until the last day. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

                        Yes, the drug issue is tiring. Even more tiring is a CEO who comes to a sprinter's defense instead of staying above the fray. In contrast, the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport recently upheld a drug suspension for one of its triathletes even though it was determined the drug entered her system accidentally. Many in the world see the USA as a bully which ignores rules whenever convenient in the economic, political and military spheres; Masback only furthers our international reputation for trying to get away with whatever we can.

                        Oh, and about the USA producing 3:50/13:10 types with regularity . . . we've had eight men under 3:50.9 and two under 13:10.9 in our history. Face it; we've never been very good. Heck, our legendary hero who inspired two movies was never better than 4th in the world!


                        • #27
                          Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                          >The Kenyans seemed almost ordinary at the Worlds
                          >-- no wins until the last day. Makes you wonder,
                          >doesn't it?

                          Does it? What are you suggesting there - that they only took EPO on the penultimate day of the champs?
                          Anyway, Kenya's medal tally would have looked more impressive had they not lost Stephen Cherono/Saaeed Saif Shaheen to Qatar just before the champs... And if you're talking about how 'the Kenyans' in general fared in Paris, you'd have to include Shaheen in this category - he is one, too, and he did prepare with other Kenyans for most of this season.
                          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...


                          • #28
                            Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                            >The Kenyans seemed almost ordinary at the Worlds
                            >-- no wins until the last day. Makes you wonder,
                            >doesn't it?>>

                            Why should it? T&FN charts going in predicted 0 wins.


                            • #29
                              Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                              Until those caught cheating are penalized severly (3 year bans for White-like offenses, 6 years for major offenses) this sport will constantly be infested with those looking for an illegal edge.

                              2 year bans are a joke - evidenced by the number of athletes still getting busted.


                              • #30
                                Re: Lagat-holy shit!

                                [Oh, and about the USA producing 3:50/13:10 types with regularity . . . we've had eight men under 3:50.9 and two under 13:10.9 in our history. Face it; we've never been very good. Heck, our legendary hero who inspired two movies was never better than 4th in the world!]

                                How about remembering that Pre was only 21 when he lost out on an Oympic medal in a homestretch sprint. A third or fourth place finisher in the 5000 or 10000 at this year's WC would be an incredible star -- and who knows how much he would have improved.