Lagat-holy shit!

[MJD]

Re: Lagat-holy shit!

>Even more tiring is a CEO who comes to a
>sprinter's defense instead of staying above the
>fray. In contrast, the Canadian Centre for
>Ethics in Sport recently upheld a drug
>suspension for one of its triathletes even
>though it was determined the drug entered her
>system accidentally. Many in the world see the
>USA as a bully which ignores rules whenever
>convenient in the economic, political and
>military spheres; Masback only furthers our
>international reputation for trying to get away
>with whatever we can.


"An adjudicator has decided that Canadian triathlete Kelly Guest did not knowingly take a banned substance prior to last year's Commonwealth Games, but Guest remains suspended from competition under Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sports rules."




http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/sto ... ry/Sports/

[Powell]

Re: Lagat-holy shit!

>A third or fourth place finisher in the 5000 or
>10000 at this year's WC would be an incredible
>star

Only if he was American... Few people would consider Sileshi Sihine or Abdullah Ahmad Hassan to be incredible stars.

[Guest]

Re: Lagat-holy shit!

To all the young athletes, and old fans, there is one true performance enhancer out there that is purely legal and far better than any drugs such as EPO.

"With Jesus in my heart, I can do anything".

Have faith, work hard and believe and you can do anything.

"I command you: Be determined and courageous! Do not fear or lose heart, for the Lord your God is with you where ever you go!" Joshua 1:9

One who truely believes, has faith and is determined and confident will always have the advantage over those who sell their souls to performance enhancing drugs. For when it gets tough and all is on the line in fierce battle the one's who took drugs faith will falter and they will fail because they are not just, they are corrupt in their soul and the true warrior, the one who believes and has heart, will prevail for his faith in the Lord will have made him strong.

[Guest]

Huh?

I very much agree that doping rules should be upheld firmly for people who knowingly use stimulants. But how can you ever consider it >just< or >right< that a confirmed case of accidental use is treated similar to the major offense?
MJD, criticise the USATF for coverups all you want, but with all do respect, using that argument is ridicilous and IMHO does not strengthen your argument.

What again is that commendable - I think even American - principle of criminal law? 'better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man in prison'?

Regards, WK


>Even more tiring is a CEO who comes to a
>sprinter's defense instead of staying above the
>fray. In contrast, the Canadian Centre for
>Ethics in Sport recently upheld a drug
>suspension for one of its triathletes even
>though it was determined the drug entered her
>system accidentally. Many in the world see the
>USA as a bully which ignores rules whenever
>convenient in the economic, political and
>military spheres; Masback only furthers our
>international reputation for trying to get away
>with whatever we can.


"An adjudicator has decided that Canadian triathlete Kelly Guest did not knowingly take a banned substance prior to last year's Commonwealth Games, but Guest remains suspended from competition under Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sports rules."




http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/sto ... ry/Sports/

[Guest]

Oops (was Re: Huh?)

Mmm.
I now see that I mistakenly attributed a comment to MJD. It was J. Squire (?) who made the suggestion I am objecting to. MJD only provided the relevant quote. sorry 'bout that...

[6 5.5hjsteve]

Re: Oops (was Re: Huh?)

pointing out what I think is the obvious here, but here goes anyway:

The problem is not Drugs, it is money. As with so many other things, money has ruined our sport. Without "professional track" there would be little drug use. Drugs in Swimming were only pervasive in East Germany, but not as I believe any where else, because there is no money incentive as Swimming is not professionalized.

As I type this I realize it is a waste of time but I'll finish anyway.

The Drug War in track is a hopeless battle that cannot be won. If Elite Athletes want to destroy themselves physically that's up to them.

And if that sets a bad example for lower end athletes that is their problem. We all make choices in life. How about personal Good Sense ?

Go ahead, tell me I am wrong. Every answer in this whole MESS is wrong.

How many thousands of T & F fans are walking away from the whole thing because of their feelings of disgust and helplessness ?

My emotional feelings on this subject are now starting to become my brain feelings as well.

[gh]

Re: Oops (was Re: Huh?)

OK Steve: you're wrong.

Steroid explosion came in the '60s, when track was still a "shamateur" sport, but no different in terms of the under-the-table payment than it had been for many decades (see Paavo Nurmi). Athletes in all sports have long sought whatever edge was available, and roids provided it, in spades. Indeed, one could argue that lack of money in the sport led the juice catching on there first. Without money to fall back on, all the track athletes had was glory, so achieving the best marks became even more paramount.

[Guest]

Re: Oops (was Re: Huh?)

>OK Steve: you're wrong.

Steroid explosion came
>in the '60s, when track was still a "shamateur"
>sport, but no different in terms of the
>under-the-table payment than it had been for many
>decades (see Paavo Nurmi). Athletes in all sports
>have long sought whatever edge was available, and
>roids provided it, in spades. Indeed, one could
>argue that lack of money in the sport led the
>juice catching on there first. Without money to
>fall back on, all the track athletes had was
>glory, so achieving the best marks became even
>more paramount.

All right, fair enough. But how many had a real choice in parts of the world with totalitarian regimes? And how many would have gotten away with it if not for inside information those regimes gained? And of those who had the choice, how many would have taken those drugs if they weren't (often correctly) convinced that their competitors were using them?

Drug use will never disappear. It will, however, fall off considerably when athletes have a reasonable expectation that both they and their competitors will be caught. Apologists for the dopers will only set our sport back.

[MJD]

Re: Confirmation?

>I would be a bit carefull expanding on this
>subject, if I were you all.

Although I know
>the source of the story to be very credible
>usually, the fact is there is still only one
>(internet) source on the matter available:

Not as of about 2 hours ago. Do a search on news.google.com now. Even the grey lady picked it up about an hour ago. Likely requires registration:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/ ... Lagat.html

[Guest]

Re: Confirmation?

If everyone could believe that the next guy was clean then I could see the sport becoming clean. But the men and women who do this at the top level know what they are up against, they are "in the loop". As I said in another post, they do it to be competive because the next guy is on something. Remove that doubt and all is well..but that is the problem..there is doubt..lots of it.

[Guest]

Re: Confirmation?

>To all the young athletes, and old fans, there is one true performance enhancer out there that is purely legal and far better than any drugs such as EPO.

>"With Jesus in my heart, I can do anything".

>Have faith, work hard and believe and you can do anything.

>"I command you: Be determined and courageous! Do not fear or lose heart, for the Lord your God is with you where ever you go!" Joshua 1:9

Man thats awesome!!!!! Thats the answer. Here's another one I live by:

I can do all things through God who strengthens me. Philipians 4:13

[Guest]

Re: Confirmation?

One thing i completely believe- that he was too sick to his stomach to compete.

Isn't epo a "dated" method of enhancement? Why wouldn't a cheater use one of the more undetectable synthetic substitutes now reportedly available?

[Guest]

Re: Confirmation?

>Isn't epo a
>"dated" method of enhancement? Why wouldn't a
>cheater use one of the more undetectable
>synthetic substitutes now reportedly available?

I have also been wondering why we would be having these EPO positives with undetectable Repoxygen supposedly now on the scene. Assuming for the sake of discussion here that it is obtainable, and thinking out loud, these are the alternatives I can come up with:

(1) That availability of Repoxygen is still tight enough that not everyone can easily get it. (2) If the availability is tight, that might make it too costly for some. (3) Perhaps Repoxygen is still new enough that those using it, or wanting to, are still trying to figure out how to use it the best way, develop a dependable protocol for using, and it is still something of an unknown quantity unlike EPO. (4) Maybe Repoxygen doesn't work as well as EPO and people are willing to take the risk of getting caught using the latter if it has a decided advantage. (5) Maybe they somehow still think they can beat the EPO test, maybe by being able to simply avoid the random spot checks.

In general, now that there is an EPO test, the EPO positives are something hard to figure unless there just aren't hardly any other alternatives at the moment, or alternatively, people have thought they wouldn't be spot-tested or could dodge it, but then got surprised. You have to wonder about this because it isn't just Lagat and Chepchumba in Kenya, it's Boulami and Mourhit in Morocco, and maybe a few others I can't remember at the moment.

Interested in other observations...

[Guest]

Re: Confirmation?

does this mean that lagat won't be the star of anymore nike commercials?

[DentyCracker]

Re: Confirmation?

http://www.asda.org.au/media/fact_sheets/repoxygen.htm

It seems repoxygen is not a good choice for doping.