Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

[Alan]

Over on the earlier thread about Edwin Moses's announcement of a comeback, I tried to get some discussion going about Al Oerter's comeback in 1980, 12 years after winning his fourth straight Olympic gold medal in the discus.

In particular, I was hoping that someone could confirm that Oerter was throwing at a PR level in 1980 and was probably a Top 10 U.S. performer.

I got no takers on the earlier Moses thread, so I wanted to re-introduce the topic with Oerter's name in the heading.

I'd also be interested in seeing people's comments on the implications of age for the discus versus the 400 hurdles. The 400 hurdles is such an endurance event (not to say the discus has no fatigue factor), that it's hard for me to see Moses doing as well as did Oerter on his comeback.

[tafnut]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

Discus, hammer and javelin seem to be kind to aging vets. Everyone else - fuggedaboudit.

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

The MAN among men, Al Oerter, did indeed set a personal record of 227-11 in May of 1980 at the age of 43. However, his best throw ever came in November of 1983 at age 47 when he threw approx. 245' during a throwing session that was taped by a documentary team preparing bios for the upcoming 1984 OG in LA. Oerter, who I had the great pleasure to meet at a clinic in March of '97, comes from the old line of Americans where "athletics" was a PASSION, not a career choice. Al has stated on more than one occasion that he would have been personally bored to have "made a living" through track and field. Life is more than that. This is the great tragedy with modern-day track and field. Al worked at Grumman for some quarter century before retiring to pursue other interests. It was while working full-time and having a family that he had 3 of 4 of his Olympic experiences. Frankly, I absolutely agree with his assessment of modern-day athletics. It is certainly not what the founders of the Olympic movement had in mind. They would be devastated to see what our sport has come to today.

Kurt

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

While I commend Mr. Oerter for competing for the love of the sport, I don't find anything wrong with track athletes getting paid large amounts of money to be track athletes. Back in the 1960s many athletes were successful while working other jobs, but that would be more difficult today because the times and marks have obviously improved. If you suggest that track athletes should compete for the love of the sport, you should suggest that for all sports (i.e. NBA, MLB, etc).

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

>It is certainly not what
>the founders of the Olympic movement had in
>mind. They would be devastated to see what our
>sport has come to today.

I suppose that this belongs in the "Historical" section. There are those who believe that Coubertin's interest in organized sport had more to do with militarism than internationalism. The Franco-Prussian war was not long in the past, and Coubertin knew that the Prussians had organized training through sport and the French did not. Read "The Nazi Olympics" for more from this viewpoint. In short, you could say he'd truly understand the USA-USSR dual meets, but be confused by a GP meet where everyone's uniform says "Nike".

[gh]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

> Frankly, I
>absolutely agree with his assessment of
>modern-day athletics. It is certainly not what
>the founders of the Olympic movement had in
>mind. They would be devastated to see what our
>sport has come to today.>>

They certainly would! Women competing, to say nothing of the "lesser races." Not to mention people from the (ugh!) working classes! Ahh, for the days when the Olympics were the exclusive province of rich white men.

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

well one continent seems to be void from hosting the summer olympics, guess which one. I think those "rich white men" are still on the olympic site selection commitee. Its a shame Africa hasn't hosted an olympics.

Athens
Paris
St. Louis
London
Stockholm
Antwerp
Paris
Amsterdam
Los Angeles
Berlin
London
Helsinki
Melbourne
Rome
Tokyo
Mexico City
Munich
Montreal
Moscow
Los Angeles
Seoul
Barcelona
Atlanta
Sydney
Athens

[niemand]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

Kurt,
Do you suggest that the revenue from track meets should all go to the organizers and promoters?

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

"Its a shame Africa hasn't hosted an olympics"

I'm sure economics play a large role in determining Olympic sites. The infrastructure improvements and new construction costs are HUGE. No disrespect to African nations, but how many can incur the billions required to build multiple stadiums, roads, athlete villages, etc.. South Africa can, but for years it was mired in Aparthied and thus not considered.

What nations in Africa have the resources to host the Olympics? Chad? Somalia? Mali?

Egypt - maybe...

Otherwise - forget it.

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

>how many can incur the billions
required to build multiple stadiums, roads,
athlete villages, etc.. South Africa can<

You haven't been to South Africa lately, have you? That is one financially shaky country, and getting shakier every day.

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

To Mr. Hill (and others):

What I am saying is that MONEY and POWER, whether diverted to the athlete, organizers, or other lesser lights in the sport, have corrupted the intents of the originators of the Olympic movement in that it was supposed to be a voluntary gathering of the youth of the world for the simple pleasure of sport and comraderie. Sports as they now exist have long since fallen from those ideals. The world has placed winners on such a high platform that all involved in athletics are almost forced to "cheat" because of the pressures associated with getting to the top. Track and field experiences this even more so as the dollars associated with the sport are so few compared to the major professional sports. Athletes (and I believe the vast, VAST, majority of them) are attempting to get around the so-called "anti-cheating" rules regarding performance enhancing substances. I'm certainly old enough and have personally competed against enough people in college that used "the stuff" to not be naive about the pervasiveness of drug use in our sport. The commentator Lewis Johnson was a personal teammate of mine at the University of Cincinnati. As a rabbit on the European circuit in the late '80s-early '90s. I'm sure that he saw the pervasiveness of drug use in the sport. I can personally name individuals on my own team that experimented with drug use. I can name numerous other athletes on other university teams of that era that used drug use. I personally experimented various levels of caffeine ingestion and amino-acid related products that were on the market at that time. I'd be hard-pressed to figure out who didn't try something or another as an aid. What I'm trying to say is that because of the pressures associated within various levels of the sport, substance use, whether great or small, is pervasive. These pressures have been brought about by the money given to the "winners", and money/power diverted to IAAF/IOC officials that control our sport.

Personally, I think I'm witnessing the decline and will witness the destruction of the modern Olympic movement. I will personally have no problem with that. I'm disgusted with the sport as it now exists at the international level. I would be greatly in favor of requiring all athletes to hold full-time jobs not associated with any of their nations governing bodies. Eliminate the IAAF & IOC for starters. Competition between nations should be on a volutary basis, and NO NATION should have to submit to the dictates of a so-called "independent body" such as the IAAF/IOC. They are a weight around the neck of current athletics. From my perspective, we've already managed in 100 years to do what it took the Greeks some 500 years to do with regard to destroying the sport from it's original intents. Life is not about sport. Sport exists to complement life, not BE life.

Of course, I know that some here on this board have more than just passing interest with regard to the continuance of the current system as they (Mr. Hill included) financially benefit from it's continuance. As for me, I am no longer a card-carrying member of the USATF and will not be as long as the sport continues in it's current form. I love the sport for the sport itself. However, I despise the fact that the USATF is currently subject to the whims and dictates of the IAAF.

Mr. Hill, as for the issue of women competing in sport, yes, I am all for that. And as for so-called "rich white men" only being allowed to compete, any cursory review of the sport for the past 150 years will clearly show this not to be the case.

Call me a dreamer, call me un-realistic in my views. I don't personally care. I stand by my views.

Kurt

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

South America hasn't hosted yet either. Rio?

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

>South America hasn't hosted yet either. Rio?<

From what I understand, Rio makes Johannesburg look safe.

[BillVol]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

I think the only cities in S.A. that could perhaps host the Olympics are Buenos Aires and Santiago. Chile is a little more stable at the moment than Argentina, so maybe Santiago would get the nod. I'd guess either could pull it off, though.

Santiago was scheduled to host the Pan Ams in '75. I imagine they had to back out because of the turmoil at the time with the overthrow of President Allende by General Pinochet (anniversary of which was yesterday, 9-11, BTW).

[Guest]

Re: Oerter's 1980 comeback (as regards Ed Moses)

>You haven't been to South Africa lately, have you? That is one financially shaky country, and getting shakier every day.

Thats wise words. I am a South African living in New Zealand due to the total uncertaincy over the future of the country. Cape town was actually Athens major competition for the 2004 olympics, but lost. I think corruption would of been a factor against SA, but the biggest factor was back in 1996 when the bidding took place, racism and apartheid had a very bad mark from the previous years. I do however think they are finacially able to hold them. But they never will