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  • " Absolute " World Records vs. " World" Records

    Someone please explain:

    This "Absolute " business seems to have been started by T&FN.

    There is only one source for World Records, and that is WA. Where do the performances of Bubka, Duplantis multiple times, and now Rojas, stack up as World records ? I even note in the latest issue of T&FN that Mondo's latest 6.20 is listed as an "Indoor" record, but not as an Absolute World record. Both the 6.19 and the 6.20 were at the same venue. What's the deal ?

  • #2
    Originally posted by dukehjsteve View Post
    in the latest issue of T&FN that Mondo's latest 6.20 is listed as an "Indoor" record, but not as an Absolute World record.
    That doesn't track. 'Absolute' simply means indoor or outdoor, satisfying the constraints of WA record-status (drug-testing, venue specs, etc.) - at least as far as I have ever seen.

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    • #3
      I have--and have always had--one firm POV on "absolute records or lists!
      An unabashed unedited uncensored ABSOLUTE---N-O!!!!!---aka Fuck NO!!!

      Whatever WA's rules & laws are--and no matter what "the Bible of the Sport" does--I see this one way, and one way only---
      There are TWO completely separate and distinct seasons in T&F---INdoors and OUTdoors---and NEVER the twain shall meet, be conjoined, or marry!!

      There are TWO completely separate sets of Records and Lists--and NEVER shall they be conjoined or marry at a "wedding of absolutes"!!
      The INdoor PV WR is just that, and that only!
      It has nothing whatsoever to do with the OUTdoor WR!!
      Or National Records, or Age Records, or Place Records, or Class Records!!

      Let WA and T&FN do as they wish!
      MY T&F Record Book, and MY Blog will always and forever recognize INdoor records as just that, and that ONLY!
      Ditto for OUTdoor records!

      Believe whom you will!
      If you want the REAL INdoor and OUTdoor records, seek out my blog or come visit me, and I'll gladly show you MY 700+ page T&F Record Book!

      LOL

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      • #4
        Don't hold back, aaronk, let us know how you really feel... lol

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        • #5
          The absolute record for PV would suggest outdoor factors such as wind have no impact on performance. What is the science on this?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by reggaeirie1234 View Post
            The absolute record for PV would suggest outdoor factors such as wind have no impact on performance. What is the science on this?
            Someday, there may be a wind consideration for PV, DT, JT, but there's not now, so science is irrelevant for the time being.

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            • #7
              So my basic question(s) have not been answered::

              Is "Absolute " WR's purely a T&FN invention ?

              Why in the April issue is Mondo's 6.20 not listed as an "absolute" ? Just a mistake by T&FN ?

              And my basic question(s) remain unanswered:

              In the eyes of WA, are there now any impediments to indoor jump performances, be they by Mondo, other prior PVers, and now Rojas, from being WA sanctioned World Records ? If this has not happened, why not ?

              And T&FN can have their "rules" for their T&FN-invented "absolute" wr's, and Aaronk can have his "rules", and even Johnny Lunchbucket can have his "rules", but the ONLY RULES that mean anything are by WA ! Answers, please from whomever knows them.

              And finally, in the April issue, why is Mondo's 6.20 listed in the yellow chart as an Indoor record, but is not mentioned as an "absolute" record ? His 6.19 is listed twice. Simple mistake by T&FN ?
              Last edited by dukehjsteve; 04-20-2022, 04:19 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dukehjsteve View Post

                And T&FN can have their "rules" for their T&FN-invented "absolute" wr's, and Aaronk can have his "rules", and even Johnny Lunchbucket can have his "rules",
                All good questions, but personally those Johnny Lunchbucket rules sound like the way to go 😂

                Seriously though, answers would be good.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by steve View Post
                  All good questions. Seriously though, answers would be good.
                  Well, I thought I understood this, but now I'm confused.
                  I could have sworn that this was precipitated by an IAAF decision to recognize certified indoor performances as 'overall' (aka 'absolute') records if they surpassed the outdoor one. I furthermore thought 'absolute' was their term, but I find no such reference on the WA site, which leads me to believe that T&FN did, indeed, make this up (which I thought was a good idea).
                  So add me to the list of inquirers.

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                  • #10
                    WA and T&FN are on the same page re WRs: there are indoor records and absolute records (in/out combined).

                    The absence of the 6.20 in the April edition depends where you look. If you look at the digital version it's in the records section.... it is missing (software glitch) from the print version.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gh View Post
                      WA and T&FN are on the same page re WRs: there are indoor records and absolute records (in/out combined).
                      Found this:

                      In 2000, IAAF rule 260.18a (formerly 260.6a) was amended, so that "world records" (as opposed to "indoor world records") can be set in a facility "with or without roof."

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                      • #12
                        One more thought, if I may indulge--
                        Absolute WR's are akin to "Lifetime Achievement Awards" given out for a life's contribution to "the arts"
                        Say an actor has been in movies, TV shows, and in stage plays!
                        So he/she gets this L.A.A. for WHAT exactly?
                        For her stage plays/
                        For her TV appearances?
                        For her movies?

                        Wouldn't it be better to give THREE awards to that actor, 1 for TV, 1 for movies, and one for the stage?
                        After all, there are major differences between each of those art forms?

                        Just as there are major differences between OUTdoor and INdoor T&F!
                        If you want to honor an athlete's overall achievement , then award each art form separately!
                        That way, for example, Mondo gets to have TWO World Records, not just one combining IN & OUT!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                          Absolute WR's are akin to "Lifetime Achievement Awards" given out for a life's contribution to "the arts"!
                          Logical Fallacy - Faulty Analogy.
                          An Absolute World Record is the highest possible 'single performance' award possible in T&F.
                          It's higher the Oscar, Emmy, Tony 'Best Actor' award. If there were such a thing in the Arts, it would be the most coveted award of all, like the EGOT, which is not 'an' award.

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                          • #14
                            Absolute world records absolutely make sense to the sane.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gh View Post
                              WA and T&FN are on the same page re WRs: there are indoor records and absolute records (in/out combined).

                              The absence of the 6.20 in the April edition depends where you look. If you look at the digital version it's in the records section.... it is missing (software glitch) from the print version.
                              Good answers, gh, thank you ! So "absolute" is their term, not yours... that's good. 2 last questions:

                              If Crouser flips one of those big soft indoor shots 77 feet, will that count as an "absolute" record? And how about"bouncy" indoor board runways/hj takeoffs ?

                              How about old PV records by Bubka, and a few others including Mondo ? Have or should they be retroactively recognized by WA ?

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