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Erriyon Knighton 19.49!!! (wind +1.4)

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  • #76
    How much time do you think this prodigious talent lost while stopping his effort 20m before the end? One 10th? Even more?
    Last edited by 79; 05-02-2022, 10:28 AM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by 79 View Post
      How much time do you think this prodigious talent lost while stopping his effort 20m before the end? One 10th? Even more?
      I'll guess - none. His body was reacting to the effort from 50-150, which was phenomenal.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Diara31 View Post
        I just saw an interesting tweet that said both the men and women's 200m race at the world champs could be won by U20 athletes i.e mboma and knighton and that's so true. I don't think this has ever happened before, even in the Olympics.
        That would be pretty insane, but isn't looking totally improbable at this point. Would love to see Knighton duplicate this kind of performance in a high-pressure race. I think he has the championship mettle to lock this event down for the rest of the decade, if healthy.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by AFelixFan View Post

          That would be pretty insane, but isn't looking totally improbable at this point. Would love to see Knighton duplicate this kind of performance in a high-pressure race. I think he has the championship mettle to lock this event down for the rest of the decade, if healthy.
          We will find out soon enough. I suspect he will do well.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by aaronk View Post
            Knighton deserves all the praise he's getting, but I just found out that Dorian Camel---who finished 3rd in 20.00--had a PR of just 20.96 prior to 2022--and that was in 2019!
            He's an LSU athlete, so that puts him into serious NCAA consideration, even though Fahnbullah finished ahead of him in 19.92!
            And not just Camel. The problem I have with this race was the results of some other men, suggesting perfect conditions. Behind Knighton, Fahnbulleh was only 1/100th off his PB; you mention Dorian Camel (who?!) knocked 31/100ths off his recent PB - & he started the year with a 21.00 PB according to WA. His 20.00 here would have ranked him 11th in the World last year. But then 4th placer Brendon Rodney, now aged 30, ran his fastest 200m for 6 years...

            Maybe the wind direction was the perfect cross wind for a 200m, maybe it was stronger than what was recorded, I don't know, but I do know that when someone goes from a 20.3 PB from a few weeks ago (after starting the year at 21.0) & when a 30 yr old runs their fastest for 6 years, little alarm bells go off in my head.

            Let's see if they all can reproduce this form.

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            • #81
              Fahnbulleh finished fifth in the Tokyo final and is in good form. Even given his reputation as a relatively slow starter/fast finisher, what Knighton did to him on the turn was an undeniable indicator that something extraordinary was taking place.

              Camel ran his 20.31 a couple of weeks earlier into a headwind (-0.8) in a race in which he finished second place to Christian Coleman's 20.25 winner. Not surprising he could drop more time with a plus wind shift.

              Rodney ran 20.33 as recently as 2019 also into a headwind (-0.7). His 20.29 in this race is not superior. Covid has intervened since then. And his 19.96 PB from 2016 shows his ability.


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              • #82
                Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                And not just Camel. The problem I have with this race was the results of some other men, suggesting perfect conditions. Behind Knighton, Fahnbulleh was only 1/100th off his PB; you mention Dorian Camel (who?!) knocked 31/100ths off his recent PB - & he started the year with a 21.00 PB according to WA. His 20.00 here would have ranked him 11th in the World last year. But then 4th placer Brendon Rodney, now aged 30, ran his fastest 200m for 6 years...

                Maybe the wind direction was the perfect cross wind for a 200m, maybe it was stronger than what was recorded, I don't know, but I do know that when someone goes from a 20.3 PB from a few weeks ago (after starting the year at 21.0) & when a 30 yr old runs their fastest for 6 years, little alarm bells go off in my head.

                Let's see if they all can reproduce this form.
                Indeed. !! The improvement by Camel is unbelievable from last year and his best last year was also April. He wont run another 20.00 this year in my view.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                  And not just Camel. The problem I have with this race was the results of some other men, suggesting perfect conditions. Behind Knighton, Fahnbulleh was only 1/100th off his PB; you mention Dorian Camel (who?!) knocked 31/100ths off his recent PB - & he started the year with a 21.00 PB according to WA. His 20.00 here would have ranked him 11th in the World last year. But then 4th placer Brendon Rodney, now aged 30, ran his fastest 200m for 6 years...

                  Maybe the wind direction was the perfect cross wind for a 200m, maybe it was stronger than what was recorded, I don't know, but I do know that when someone goes from a 20.3 PB from a few weeks ago (after starting the year at 21.0) & when a 30 yr old runs their fastest for 6 years, little alarm bells go off in my head.

                  Let's see if they all can reproduce this form.
                  I was a spectator at the 1983 South of England men's champs at Hendon (North London). It was quite a warm day (about 25C/ mid to high 70s F) and the wind direction for the 200m final was approximately from the 200m start to the finish. I think the wind was recorded as +1.96m/s (I think this was before it was clarified that wind readings should only be recorded to 0.1 of a m/s).All 8 finalists set PBs and the winner ran the only sub 21 of his career.

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                  • #84
                    Of the top six finishers in the race at issue, only two, Knighton and Camel set PBs. Of the four who did not, only Fahnbullah came close.

                    Rodney has been discussed. Fifth place finisher Floreal came in with a 20.29 PB and ran 20.68. Sixth place finisher Moore came in with 20.39 PB and ran 20.87

                    If Fahnbullah were not in the race, I could see the caviling. But he was and is really the only barometer needed. Knighton torched him. Camel outran him until the last few meters.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                      Maybe the wind direction was the perfect cross wind for a 200m
                      Ala Walter Dix in his 2007 NCAA East Regional in Gainesville. The wind was strongly at his back in the first 100, but only recorded as a +0.9 on the straightaway. Result - 19.69.
                      Fortunately he was able to PR again 4 years later in Brussels in 19.53.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                        Ala Walter Dix in his 2007 NCAA East Regional in Gainesville. The wind was strongly at his back in the first 100, but only recorded as a +0.9 on the straightaway. Result - 19.69.
                        Fortunately he was able to PR again 4 years later in Brussels in 19.53.
                        When the wind is swirling and gusting like it was at LSU last Saturday, the wind gauge, which only measures the wind at a specific place and time on the track, will always beva crap shoot, especially in the 200 where runners change directions during the race.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by player View Post
                          Of the top six finishers in the race at issue, only two, Knighton and Camel set PBs. Of the four who did not, only Fahnbullah came close.

                          Rodney has been discussed. Fifth place finisher Floreal came in with a 20.29 PB and ran 20.68. Sixth place finisher Moore came in with 20.39 PB and ran 20.87

                          If Fahnbullah were not in the race, I could see the caviling. But he was and is really the only barometer needed. Knighton torched him. Camel outran him until the last few meters.
                          Why did you stop at the top 6 though? If we're going to break it down into a full analysis, lets looks at them all. Because 7th and 8th place ran big PBs too. What we have is 5 of 8 ran PBs, with a 6th just 1/100th off their PB, and a 30yr old running their fastest time in 6 years.
                          • You mention Floreal finishing in 5th place with 20.68. Correct, but interestingly he ran 20.65 two weeks ago...with a +3.4 wind.
                          • Marcellus Moore does have a PB from this year of 20.39, but that's not the full story. When you look at his races this year, that 20.39 stands out as an outlier, he has run six 200's and his times are 21.16, 21.13, 20.39, 20.71, 20.98, and 20.87 here. Without that random 20.3, he averages 20.97 this season. Also note his last race before this, his 20.98, had a +3.7 wind.
                          • Malachi Murray finished 7th in 20.91, a PB by 19/100ths. Note he ran 21.29 with +3.4 wind just 2 weeks ago.
                          • Jathan Bellair finished 8th in 21.26, a PB by 20/100ths.
                          As we know, heat 2 at the same meet had a +3.3 wind, whilst heat 3 was 1.9; heat 4 was 0.1 & heat 5 was 0.7. Yep, I know the nature of wind isn't consistent and we get blustery conditions, but when I look at these results, in the context of other races these guys have run this season, it doesn't give me confidence with some of the readings. Personally I don't trust the times in some of these meets in wide open tracks.

                          Note, I am also aware that young sprinters will massively improve in one meet. I get it. I just hope we get to see these guys reproduce these times in more enclosed tracks.

                          (Also note, just because the conditions are perfect, or the wind direction ideal, doesn't mean every athlete in that race will run a PB.)

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                          • #88
                            Superb analysis, Wiederganger! You took time for this research. This is very much appreciated.
                            Good to say it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                              Why did you stop at the top 6 though? If we're going to break it down into a full analysis, lets looks at them all. Because 7th and 8th place ran big PBs too. What we have is 5 of 8 ran PBs, with a 6th just 1/100th off their PB, and a 30yr old running their fastest time in 6 years.
                              • You mention Floreal finishing in 5th place with 20.68. Correct, but interestingly he ran 20.65 two weeks ago...with a +3.4 wind.
                              • Marcellus Moore does have a PB from this year of 20.39, but that's not the full story. When you look at his races this year, that 20.39 stands out as an outlier, he has run six 200's and his times are 21.16, 21.13, 20.39, 20.71, 20.98, and 20.87 here. Without that random 20.3, he averages 20.97 this season. Also note his last race before this, his 20.98, had a +3.7 wind.
                              • Malachi Murray finished 7th in 20.91, a PB by 19/100ths. Note he ran 21.29 with +3.4 wind just 2 weeks ago.
                              • Jathan Bellair finished 8th in 21.26, a PB by 20/100ths.
                              As we know, heat 2 at the same meet had a +3.3 wind, whilst heat 3 was 1.9; heat 4 was 0.1 & heat 5 was 0.7. Yep, I know the nature of wind isn't consistent and we get blustery conditions, but when I look at these results, in the context of other races these guys have run this season, it doesn't give me confidence with some of the readings. Personally I don't trust the times in some of these meets in wide open tracks.

                              Note, I am also aware that young sprinters will massively improve in one meet. I get it. I just hope we get to see these guys reproduce these times in more enclosed tracks.

                              (Also note, just because the conditions are perfect, or the wind direction ideal, doesn't mean every athlete in that race will run a PB.)
                              Four of eight PBs, not five. And harping on six years with Rodney is tedious when you know he ran essentially the same time in 2019. And his PB from six years ago is sub 20.

                              Again, Fahnbullah. Olympic finalist, proven sub 20 guy, young, in his prime. He is by far the most pertinent measuring stick for Knighton's and Camel's current quality. Which is the pertinent issue.

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                              • #90
                                That's the beauty of our sport. Someone can suck the joy out of any performance.

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