2022 women's AOY

[DET59]

Yet it is Syd's fault for not facing her toughest available competitor (Bol) at all outside the WC. Bol competed in the 400mh 5 times in the Diamond League, so it wasn't like it would have been difficult to find somewhere to compete against Bol.

So, did Yulimar face tougher competition in her 5 meets than Sydney did in her 4 meets? Does the one extra meet make that big of difference ?

[18.99s]

So, did Yulimar face tougher competition in her 5 meets than Sydney did in her 4 meets? Does the one extra meet make that big of difference ?

Rojas faced her toughest challenger (Ricketts) 4 times: the WC + 3 Diamond League meets. SM faced Bol only at the WC.

[DET59]

Rojas faced her toughest challenger (Ricketts) 4 times: the WC + 3 Diamond League meets. SM faced Bol only at the WC.

This is where we disagree. AOY Is not about how many times you beat the second best person in your event for the season.

Rojas beat the # 28 all-time ranked TJer, who's PB is 2 feet less than her season best/word record, 4 times in her 5 total meets. (Ricketts).

Sydney beat the the following all-time ranked athletes this season in her 4 meets: # 2 (previous WR holder) # 3 (Bol), # 5 (twice), # 22, # 24 (2x) # 25 (2x) and # 26.

Comparatively, Rojas in her 5 meets faced a much weaker fields than Sydney did in her 4 meets/8 races. 8 of the top 26 all-time ranked 400h'rs raced this season. In the TJ no one other than Rojas in the top 20 competed, though # 's 23,25, and 28 did (all with PB's about 2 feet short of Yulimar)

Let me restate: Yulimar gets more than a slight edge for having a better season (1 more comp, DL title). Sydney gets a slight edge (only a slight edge) for facing better competition in all 4 of her meets/8 races For me it comes down to how setting 2 outdoor WR's in major meets are valued compared to setting one absolute WR in January. Both the 50.68 and the 15.74 were amazing efforts and eliminates anyone else from AOY.

I think it is a very close competition between these two. The non-analytical part of me thinks Yulimar deserves it more as she only got T&FN "MVP" during covid, and Sydney at 22 has plenty of time for both AOY's and AOD. Of course the voters never think that subjectively : )

[18.99s]

This is where we disagree. AOY Is not about how many times you beat the second best person in your event for the season.

What? AOY is partly about how many times you've faced and beaten the best athletes in your event, especially if your top AOY rival has done that more than you.

Let me restate: Yulimar gets more than a slight edge for having a better season (1 more comp, DL title)

Not just one more competition, but better quality competitions outside of the WC. 3 Diamond League meets against Rojas's top rivals, vs SM's 2 low-key meets without.

[DrJay]

AOY is in part based on how many times you beat your competitors that year. If I recall correctly, criteria, in order, are 1. honors won 2. record against competition and 3. sequence of marks.

[Davidokun]

AOY is in part based on how many times you beat your competitors that year. If I recall correctly, criteria, in order, are 1. honors won 2. record against competition and 3. sequence of marks.

Those are the criteria used by T&FN's rankings panel, who determine the results via debate. T&FN's AOY is separately determined by a larger panel, who determine the results via ranked voting.

[DET59]

AOY is in part based on how many times you beat your competitors that year. If I recall correctly, criteria, in order, are 1. honors won 2. record against competition and 3. sequence of marks.

Dr Jay, is setting a world record considered an honor? It is by far the most difficult thing to accomplish in T&F and to do it twice in a season is pretty amazing.

[DET59]

What? AOY is partly about how many times you've faced and beaten the best athletes in your event, especially if your top AOY rival has done that more than you.



Not just one more competition, but better quality competitions outside of the WC. 3 Diamond League meets against Rojas's top rivals, vs SM's 2 low-key meets without.

USATF NC is a "low key" meet ? Rojas doesn't have any rivals : )

[18.99s]

USATF NC is a "low key" meet ? Rojas doesn't have any rivals : )

SM's 2 low-key meets were Nashville in June and Hungary in August.

Rojas had 4 top-tier meets (3 DL + WC), SM had 2 (trials + WC).

[Steele]

I'm sure it's been hashed out before, but AOY really compares athletes from completely different sports. In this case, the discussion is about an event in which an athlete sprints all out on an oval for a minute while clearing obstacles. There is a start gun and seven other rivals running adjacent at the same time.

Versus an event wherein the athlete sprints for 40 meters, then jumps/hops three times. No one else is jumping at the same time, the athlete can initiate their effort whenever they are most comfortable in a 60 (?) second window, and they are allowed six attempts in which to provide their best effort. In between efforts they can like down, get a drink or eat, listen to music, get tips from a coach (or even a competitor).

What do these events have in common other than they are held at the same venue and involve some running? Basketball and soccer have as much in common as these events.

Not that I would change a thing!

[aaronk]

Honors won
SAFP Gold in WC 100 (MR), Silvers in 200 & 4X100R
Wins Zurich in 10.65 into an 0.9 wind, beating SJ's 10.81
Wins several other DL's

Win-Loss
SAFP won 7 of her 8 finals, her 1 loss to SJ was close
She obviously had winning records against all her other competitors, worldwide

Sequence of marks
SAFP ran 7 times at 10.67 or faster, the most by any woman in history
All this at age 35 while being a mom

SAFP gets AOY, no contest!!

[Davidokun]

Rather than continue with this pissing contest, perhaps it would be more interesting for the denizens of these message boards to select an AOY using the same method used by T&FN. Each member posts his or her ranked top ten. Not one, not three, not eleven, but ten, in ranked order. For example (NOT my ballot):

1. Yulimar Levrone
2. Faith Muhammad
3. Sifan Quinn
4. Sydney Allman
5. Athing Uibo
6. Jasmine Kipyegon
7. Valarie Herah
8. Shaunae Rojas
9. Dalilah Hassan
10. Elaine Mu

If enough members submit such ballots, we can compile the results, and then compare it with those of T&FN when they are published in January.

[Atticus]

Rather than continue with this pissing contest, perhaps it would be more interesting for the denizens of these message boards to select an AOY using the same method used by T&FN. Each member posts his or her ranked top ten. Not one, not three, not eleven, but ten, in ranked order. For example (NOT my ballot):

1. Yulimar Levrone

Definitely . . . definitely . . . # 1.

[Davidokun]

Definitely . . . definitely . . . # 1.

Randomly matching first and (shortened) last names from T&FN's top ten for 2021...

[DrJay]

Dr Jay, is setting a world record considered an honor? It is by far the most difficult thing to accomplish in T&F and to do it twice in a season is pretty amazing.

I made no comment about who doing what this year is more worthy, just said that head-to-head competitive record is part of the criteria. And I don’t make the criteria, TAFNEWS does.