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  • #31
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

    Duh! Yes, completely forgot volleyball. Great leapers with basically standard HJer bodies.
    Volleyball starts in 3rd grade well before anyone has a chance to start high jumping. There's also a ton of pressure for girls to do select volleyball if they want to play for a school team. My kids don't go to remotely athletics centric schools (the middle school and high school are fine arts academies) but there's not 1 girl from 7th grade through varsity that is not also playing select volleyball. About 90% of them only play volleyball. My daughter wanted to play tennis since she was the middle school MVP but the HS tennis coach didn't want her since she also played volleyball and couldn't commit to fall club tennis. I can't imagine how much more intense it is at a school that actually cares about sports.

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    • #32
      Here in FL...Volleyball is played nearly immediately upon returning to school and blends right into Basketball tryouts towards the end of October.

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      • #33
        No Money
        No Money!

        I am not happy with 2.29-2.33 wins but it is a sign of young athletes are aware not wasting their time to jump high and make no money. For what? Glory of their country? Not in 21st century.

        Is it possible Sotomayor 2.45 m and Kostadinova 2.09 m are the caps for humans?

        Solution to jump higher
        I mentioned this for all jumps previously. Shoe companies spend money and come up with new technology similar to long distance and we can see 2.50 for men and 2.10 for women in no time. It must also include money for training athletes and prize money.

        Same for LJ and TJ.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by GHM View Post
          No Money
          No Money!

          I am not happy with 2.29-2.33 wins but it is a sign of young athletes are aware not wasting their time to jump high and make no money. For what? Glory of their country? Not in 21st century.

          Is it possible Sotomayor 2.45 m and Kostadinova 2.09 m are the caps for humans?

          Same for LJ and TJ.
          I think the more-or-less 40 or so year stagnation of all of the different jumps shows/proves that probably all the speed improvements in the running events are track/equipment based.

          Carl Lewis' 1984 body in/on today's tech? 9.6x (The same could be said for many athletes.)
          You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

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          • #35
            In the U.S. there is a paucity of good high jump coaches. That is likely an issue elsewhere, too, but glaring here in a super technical event.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by gm View Post
              In the U.S. there is a paucity of good high jump coaches. That is likely an issue elsewhere, too, but glaring here in a super technical event.
              Really! I'm guessing you HAVE coached it, as have I, and I find that remarkable. I've taken the week-long USATF Coaching Course in the jumps and while it was super-technical, everyone there already had many success stories, some at the highest level, before they came. I didn't learn anything from the technical perspective that made me a better coach, but talking with the other coaches when we went to the track was SUPER-informative. It just takes a good eye for the little things, which only comes from decades of experience. I have also found that a genetically gifted jumper, who is willing to do the work, is the greatest factor in being a 'great coach'.

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              • #37
                After a young track coach complained about so few kids coming out for track (around 2010), an old wise coach told me that back in the "heyday" of 100+ kids/ 2 buses to a dual meet there was little competition for track. Basically, tons of boys went out for baseball but most got cut. They were 5 or 6 who kids lived near the rich neighboring town who had the Dad/money to be on the golf team. The football and basketball coaches told everyone who didn't make baseball to go out for track to stay in shape. That was spring sports. At the time of the young coach complaining, basketball had become year-round (same as volleyball), football had a spring passing league, the school had added several sports, soccer had become the biggest youth sport in the town (and was now year-round), there were a few new community Club Based sports (rugby, lacrosse) and a whole new emphasis on organized X Games type of activities (town really got into skateparks, BMX parks, and off-roading/Motocross type sports) Then martial arts took off..... A major bike manufacturer moved US headquarters to town and another 30 kids took up road racing... Meanwhile, all parents heard about track and field was that all the stars took drugs. Talk about no one left to high jump? Poor young coach barely had 4 kids left at the end of the meet to run the 4x400 !

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                  Really! I'm guessing you HAVE coached it, as have I, and I find that remarkable. I've taken the week-long USATF Coaching Course in the jumps and while it was super-technical, everyone there already had many success stories, some at the highest level, before they came. I didn't learn anything from the technical perspective that made me a better coach, but talking with the other coaches when we went to the track was SUPER-informative. It just takes a good eye for the little things, which only comes from decades of experience. I have also found that a genetically gifted jumper, who is willing to do the work, is the greatest factor in being a 'great coach'.
                  I often wish I had kept a list of the bizarre things high school coaches told high jumpers to do, as related to me by the athletes when they were in college. There were some doozies, not least of which was the coach who insisted a double-foot takeoff was the only proper takeoff.

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                  • #39
                    I quoted some experts on this subject during Oregon22:

                    https://timesofsandiego.com/sports/2...ng-beamonized/

                    K. E. N
                    K E N

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GHM View Post
                      Is it possible Sotomayor 2.45 m and Kostadinova 2.09 m are the caps for humans?
                      Quite possibly, or they are very close to it. I think, more than any other event, the HJ WRs are limited by basic human anatomy. To break the men's WR, I think there is a 'sweet spot' between 6'4" (1.93m and 6'7" (2.01m). If you are shorter than that, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to jump far enough above your own height to clear 2.46+. Taller than that, and there are almost always diminishing returns in areas such as strength/weight ratio, flexibility and coordination. Also the amount of people who are that tall is relatively small so the probability of one of them having the athleticism required is smaller. I think the equivalent range for the women's WR may be about 5'11 (1.80m) to 6'2" (1.88m).

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GHM View Post
                        Is it possible Sotomayor 2.45 m and Kostadinova 2.09 m are the caps for humans?
                        It has to be close to that, but Barshim definitely had at least one solid attempt at 2.46; Vlasic quite a few at 2.10 (right? or did she only ever attempt 2.09? my memory fails), Mahuchikh's recent 2.10 looked quite close. I'm not sure I remember how good Lasitskene looked attempting those heights. 2.47 and 2.11 seem quite unreachable.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ceil View Post
                          2.47 and 2.11 seem quite unreachable.
                          Yet they will be surpassed; it's inevitable. [altho my bet with Pego on 2.50 being reached in our lifetime ain't looking so good right now!]

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ceil View Post
                            Vlasic quite a few at 2.10 (right? or did she only ever attempt 2.09? my memory fails), Mahuchikh's recent 2.10 looked quite close. I'm not sure I remember how good Lasitskene looked attempting those heights. 2.47 and 2.11 seem quite unreachable.
                            Lasitskene mainly focused on surpassing Chicherova's NR (2.07) and not on the WR.
                            Vlasic only came close when she cleared that 2.08 in 2009 in Zagreb. It was a great night for her, as she cleared all heights including 2.08m at her first attempt. It was a good clearance too, which promised a lot when she attempted 2.10m but wasn't to be.
                            Slesarenko's 2/3 attempts at the 2004 Olympics were solid. Hestrie Cloete's attempts at the 2003 WC not so much. Kajsa Bergqvist and Ariane Friedrich also attempted at the WR with no luck.

                            Finally, I remember Venelina Veneva once attempting 2.11m(!!!) after winning in Zurich in 2006. Strange that she didn't go for 2.10m.

                            2003-2009 was the golden age for women's HJ.
                            Last edited by gmak; 09-23-2022, 02:47 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gmak View Post

                              Lasitskene mainly focused on surpassing Chicherova's NR (2.07) and not on the WR.
                              I thought I remembered her attempting 2.10 in Lausanne '17. Was that just a 2.08?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ceil View Post
                                I thought I remembered her attempting 2.10 in Lausanne '17. Was that just a 2.08?
                                She indeed attempted 2.10 at that meet.

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