Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2023 World Indoor Champs cancelled (oh sorry, postponed...)

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
    To be fair this is no different to the World Champs in swimming, cycling and umpteen other individual sports. Some of these even have a limit of 1 per country in an event.
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Yes it's called reality. It works fine as it is.
    Please expand on this idea. I'm not sure what you mean.

    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Yes it's called reality. It works fine as it is.
    Do you see the current system's ineffectiveness in growing the fan base as a problem?
    Last edited by NormZylstra; 09-04-2022, 01:24 AM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by DET59 View Post

      Doesn't seem to be a problem for soccer's premier event, the World Cup, where the best teams in the world don't play....
      Who was the last top-20 player in the world not to compete in the World Cup? Also, there are so many championships that are filled with the top players on the top teams. FIFA makes it rain putting the top teams on the pitch multiple times a year.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post
        I'll forget about the 'US experience' as track and field is a world sport.
        I'm not sure what you mean.

        Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post
        Sports like tennis have virtually four World Championships every year with their Grand Slams (five if you count their year-ending-champs). Plus there are events every week of the year where the majority of top 100 players in the world compete.
        Right, and Athletics is the opposite. Never a competition with all the top-10 or so athletes in each event.



        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
          From a US American perspective, how do we explain to our high school track + fielders why "There is no championship this season"? Diminishes the fandom of the sport. We are not helping our athletes become fans. Just the opposite.
          There IS championship every season. It is called USATF Championships. After all, that's the equivalent of SuperBowl, World Series and NBA Finals, which are all championships of domestic leagues. The global championships in those sports (IFAF World Championships, World Baseball Classic and FIBA World Cup) take place every four years.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
            Who was the last top-20 player in the world not to compete in the World Cup? Also, there are so many championships that are filled with the top players on the top teams. FIFA makes it rain putting the top teams on the pitch multiple times a year.
            I didn't say the best players don't compete, I said the best teams. The 32+ team format/qualifying waters down the teams and spreads the best players over 40 or 50 countries. The majority of countries only have a handful of Premier, Bundesliga, Spanish league level players. One of the knocks on Messi is he is only great on rich club teams that can buy a surrounding cast of great players, but can't win at WC level with countrymen who are only about half a team of highest level players. Teams like Real Madrid or ManU in their prime, (chock full of international all-stars) and with scores of games/experience played together would crush almost all nations in a mythical "club vs nation" tournament.

            Nonetheless, it is for whatever reason (national pride, gambling opportunities, social gatherings) the worlds biggest event. FIFA has figured out how to make the magic sauce combination of talent and nationalism like no other sport. I think soccer is a bit similar to Olympic men's basketball but not as extreme. If the top 12 NBA teams played the 12 Olympic national teams in a mythical tournament almost all the games would be one sided blowouts. No one cares about FIBA titles outside of the OG, but everyone cares about FIFA titles.

            Funny though, I once saw a study that analyzed the pro salary totals of each national team in the world cup. The numbers didn't always line up with results. At the time a team with relatively few international stars (Uruguay - who had many 5 or low 6 figure USD salaried players) really out performed teams like England whose nonplaying bench warmers were multi-millionaires. Another reason the WC is so popular.

            One reason I love track and field is the best are the best, and for the most part we see the best at the Olympics, WCs and DL (occasionally, but not often, a 4th place/dnf finisher at someones nationals was also a real medal contender, and later post Olympics/WCs proves it... aka Dan O'Brien). For the same reason I find the NBA playoffs way more fun to watch than the Olympics.

            Last edited by DET59; 09-04-2022, 03:10 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by DET59 View Post
              I didn't say the best players don't compete, I said the best teams. The 32+ team format/qualifying waters down the teams and spreads the best players over 40 or 50 countries. The majority of countries only have a handful of Premier, Bundesliga, Spanish league level players. One of the knocks on Messi is he is only great on rich club teams that can buy a surrounding cast of great players, but can't win at WC level with countrymen who are only about half a team of highest level players. Teams like Real Madrid or ManU in their prime, (chock full of international all-stars) and with scores of games/experience played together would crush almost all nations in a mythical "club vs nation" tournament.

              Nonetheless, it is for whatever reason (national pride, gambling opportunities, social gatherings) the worlds biggest event. FIFA has figured out how to make the magic sauce combination of talent and nationalism like no other sport. I think soccer is a bit similar to Olympic men's basketball but not as extreme. If the top 12 NBA teams played the 12 Olympic national teams in a mythical tournament almost all the games would be one sided blowouts. No one cares about FIBA titles outside of the OG, but everyone cares about FIFA titles.

              Funny though, I once saw a study that analyzed the pro salary totals of each national team in the world cup. The numbers didn't always line up with results. At the time a team with relatively few international stars (Uruguay - who had many 5 or low 6 figure USD salaried players) really out performed teams like England whose nonplaying bench warmers were multi-millionaires. Another reason the WC is so popular.
              Well done. Love learning in this board.

              Originally posted by DET59 View Post
              One reason I love track and field is the best are the best, and for the most part, we see the best at the Olympics, WCs and DL (occasionally, but not often, a 4th place/dnf finisher at someone's nationals was also a real medal contender, and later post Olympics/WCs proves it... aka Dan O'Brien).
              Would we offer a better product if we have 6-7 Kenyans in the steeple medal race? 4-5 US American shot putters? I say yes, much better. We never have all the best together... never ever.

              Unless I'm missing something.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TN1965 View Post

                There IS a championship every season. It is called USATF Championships. After all, that's the equivalent of Super Bowl, World Series, and NBA Finals, which are all championships of domestic leagues. The global championships in those sports (IFAF World Championships, World Baseball Classic, and FIBA World Cup) take place every four years.
                International players are in all those championships–Super Bowl, World Series, and NBA Finals. I do not see anyone seeing those as domestic leagues. Same with NHL. The best team in those championship tournaments consist of some of the best players in the world. Better players would have been better in that tournament. IFAF World Championships, World Baseball Classic, and FIBA World Cup do not include many of the world's top players and are not considered the best possible national team by knowledgable fans.

                Unless I'm missing something.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
                  Well done. Love learning in this board.

                  Would we offer a better product if we have 6-7 Kenyans in the steeple medal race? 4-5 US American shot putters? I say yes, much better. We never have all the best together... never ever.

                  Unless I'm missing something.
                  I mostly agree, though funny you should mention because in another thread someone complained about the 6 Kenyans in the women's DL Brussels steeple who all had on the same outfits and shoes (it was actually 9 Kenyans and Ethiopians, the top six who I believe went 1-6 wearing nikes preferred 2022 gear)... their issue was the announcers not be able to tell who was who. I'm pretty happy seeing only the top 3 (or 4 for returning champs)... I think each nation should be given 1-2 wild cards for Dan O'Brien type situations or to simply use as they please (perhaps this year at world it would have been a 5th shot putter). 5 Kenyans steeplers would be enough for me no matter what they are wearing : )

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
                    I'm not sure what you mean.

                    Right, and Athletics is the opposite. Never a competition with all the top-10 or so athletes in each event.


                    Why do posters insist on comparing tennis and track and field.
                    This sport of athletics is entirely different in number of disciplines and does not consist of a ball and a racquet.
                    Tennis players are able and willing to play almost the whole year from December through January and on and on through the year with Grand slams with hardly a break.
                    The injuries issue is far far more prevalent in track and field, that's not to say tennis does not, which we know it does, but no where near the extent and damage caused by injuries that every athlete who sprints, runs massive training distances, throws , jumps etc putting pressures on every part of torso etc
                    . The day will never come when all athletes compete 9 or 10 months of the year.No I am not talking american college track and field, which has it's own season of competition.January to June mostly.No wonder your small number of top college athletes are totally pooped by having to compete beyond Mid June.
                    I will guarantee that people running and throwing and jumping are vastly more prevalent in the world(that's NOT USA posters which is not even 5 per cent of the worlds population) than lower and upper middle class types who meet for tennis.
                    If you asked the top 12 track and field athletes in every discipline to meet and compete 9 months of the year in fierce but well paid competition they would laugh for sure.
                    The track and field athletes who are at the top of their game will not compete more than 4/5 months of the year., if that. Track and field is not just 100/200/400 m events. Across the board, athletes start seriously in May and compete till early September and tell us all they are pooped and go on holiday and then train through the next 4 or 5 months with some of them ,but far from all, indoor competing in some events.
                    Track and field support in stadia has no comparison with vast numbers of sports where you sit on a chair and move your head from left to right for a couple of hours , not trying to follow sprints, then a whole 15 minutes event,while watching simultaneously two or three other events.
                    Finally to organise athletes, cities, stadia,, sponsors, officials etc and the whole presentation for an annual WORLD athletics competition is a vastly more costly and complicated event than any other sporting occasion.
                    Team competitions like soccer, football, rugby,basketball, baseball,, being team sports are an entirely different dynamic to the highly individual sport that comprises up 40 different disciplines.
                    Posters like Aaron completely overlook the costs and problems of organising a worldwide athletics event
                    . World series, super bowl, are you joking. That's just the USA, fans.
                    Sorry I have had to compress views into a single post cos the whole subject demands a lot more writing and details. !
                    Last edited by clementina; 09-04-2022, 07:21 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      [QUOTE=clementina;n1771744]

                      Why do posters insist on comparing tennis and track and field.
                      This sport of athletics is entirely different... f
                      /QUOTE]

                      Clementina, very good post. Of all the big revenue/fan sports track has the most in commom with tennis and golf, but only in that that the athletes are self employed independent contractors.

                      Where they differ is track and field is still pretty much run by governing bodies and the athletes have never seriously attempted to separate themselves from the "amateur" side of the sport. Tennis and Golf are run for the benefit of the athletes, with compensation first and foremost on the agenda. If the top 200 athletes got together and said, "we dont care where the next two WCs are held, lets just go with the bids that pays the highest prize money" things might be very different. Probably end up with LIV Track.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
                        Who was the last top-20 player in the world not to compete in the World Cup?
                        There have been examples of notable players from countries that haven't qualified for the World Cup finals. For example, Wales didn't make it between 1958 and 2022 but had a number of very good players over this period.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DET59 View Post

                          I mostly agree, though funny you should mention because in another thread someone complained about the 6 Kenyans in the women's DL Brussels steeple who all had on the same outfits and shoes (it was actually 9 Kenyans and Ethiopians, the top six who I believe went 1-6 wearing nikes preferred 2022 gear)... their issue was the announcers not be able to tell who was who. I'm pretty happy seeing only the top 3 (or 4 for returning champs)... I think each nation should be given 1-2 wild cards for Dan O'Brien type situations or to simply use as they please (perhaps this year at world it would have been a 5th shot putter). 5 Kenyans steeplers would be enough for me no matter what they are wearing : )
                          Will there be complaints if there are six white dudes wearing the same outfit and shoes?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Juicy News View Post

                            Will there be complaints if there are six white dudes wearing the same outfit and shoes?
                            I can't think of a single stadia event where six white dudes on a track finish 1st-6th place in any elite competition, in any event, no matter what they are wearing : )

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by DET59 View Post

                              I can't think of a single stadia event where six white dudes on a track finish 1st-6th place in any elite competition, in any event, no matter what they are wearing : )
                              Tim Hutchings was calling Sedjati (Algerian) ‘ROBERT’ (French) as he stormed down the home straight in the Brussels 800m. Are these two men Kenyan?

                              Are you saying that in a 3000m long race the camera was always panned out so that the commentators couldn’t make out who was who? And no on screen graphics for the whole thing? Maybe I will have to watch again..

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

                                There have been examples of notable players from countries that haven't qualified for the World Cup finals. For example, Wales didn't make it between 1958 and 2022 but had a number of very good players over this period.
                                And of course George Best who played for NI never was in a WC.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X