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  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    Well done. Love learning in this board.

    Would we offer a better product if we have 6-7 Kenyans in the steeple medal race? 4-5 US American shot putters? I say yes, much better. We never have all the best together... never ever.

    Unless I'm missing something.
    6-7 Kenyans in the steeple? Based on their SBs this year, out of top eight steeplers,

    Three Kenyans, three Ethiopians, a Moroccan and an Italian among men.

    ONE Kenyan, three Ethiopians, a Ugandan, a Bahraini, a Kazak, and a Brit among women. (Even if you count Jeruto and Yavi and Kenyans, that's three out of eight.)
    Last edited by TN1965; 09-05-2022, 08:18 AM.

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  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    International players are in all those championships–Super Bowl, World Series, and NBA Finals. I do not see anyone seeing those as domestic leagues. Same with NHL. The best team in those championship tournaments consist of some of the best players in the world. Better players would have been better in that tournament. IFAF World Championships, World Baseball Classic, and FIBA World Cup do not include many of the world's top players and are not considered the best possible national team by knowledgable fans.

    Unless I'm missing something.
    NCAA also has international athletes. It's still a domestic championship. The global championship is called the Universiade, which few Americans have even heard of.

    "Knowledgeable" fans are few and far between. Most fans don't care about whether the "best players" are in the competition or not. They care about rooting for THEIR team and THEIR players. That's why HS track meets are more popular than Prefontaine Classic.

    If marketed properly, USATF can attract more casual fans than the World Championships. There are more American athletes for Joe and Jane Public to root for. And "up close and personal" features that are so central to the NBC Sports production are more relatable when they are about American athletes. There is no time zone issue for American TV viewers, so everything can be seen live at a time when most of them want to watch. You can instantly interview every medalist without any need for translators. Definitely more "viewer friendly" than any meet from overseas.

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  • NotDutra5
    replied
    [QUOTE=DET59;n1771745]
    Originally posted by clementina View Post

    Why do posters insist on comparing tennis and track and field.
    This sport of athletics is entirely different... f
    /QUOTE]

    Clementina, very good post. Of all the big revenue/fan sports track has the most in commom with tennis and golf, but only in that that the athletes are self employed independent contractors.

    Where they differ is track and field is still pretty much run by governing bodies and the athletes have never seriously attempted to separate themselves from the "amateur" side of the sport. Tennis and Golf are run for the benefit of the athletes, with compensation first and foremost on the agenda. If the top 200 athletes got together and said, "we dont care where the next two WCs are held, lets just go with the bids that pays the highest prize money" things might be very different. Probably end up with LIV Track.
    FWIW when Justin Thomas or Jordan Spieth are staring down a putt, I'm never sure which it is.

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  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by gm View Post

    They have the athlete's name on them. I don't see how it could be much easier for someone to identify an athlete. Get a spotter if you need one, or buy a pair of binoculars.
    Yes.....it couldn't be simpler. Unless you can't read.



    Last edited by Conor Dary; 09-04-2022, 05:30 PM.

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  • gm
    replied
    Originally posted by DET59 View Post

    The bibs also are pretty worthless.
    They have the athlete's name on them. I don't see how it could be much easier for someone to identify an athlete. Get a spotter if you need one, or buy a pair of binoculars.

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    How do you keep new fans engaged when their 'stars' disappear every-other season?
    No global champs doesn't mean no competition. Soccer only has WC every 4 years (and that's the only real global championships they have - the OG don't mean much there). Does that mean the sport disappears in 3 years out of 4?

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  • DET59
    replied
    Originally posted by eightsevensix View Post

    Tim Hutchings was calling Sedjati (Algerian) ‘ROBERT’ (French) as he stormed down the home straight in the Brussels 800m. Are these two men Kenyan?

    Are you saying that in a 3000m long race the camera was always panned out so that the commentators couldn’t make out who was who? And no on screen graphics for the whole thing? Maybe I will have to watch again..
    I think the point of the original post was directed at NIKE, who seem to issue a "standard" uniform and shoe color every year (BTW great marketing) that makes it hard to call a 800+ races when everyone is wearing the same thing and it is a slow, bunched up race (As was the womens DL steeple). In the good ole days announcers could make notes based on uniform colors, etc (just like in horse races, horses ID'd by colors) The bibs also are pretty worthless. The simple answer to me is make the bibs bordered by 8 different birght neon colors. I look at the whole things as a positive problem. There is more available free or low cost live track and field than ever before in history these days, so announcers are going to make more mistakes than if they just called the "big" races for an hour.5 imes a year for a network. 20 years ago we wouldn't even be seeing the women's steeple.

    Bib Colors: Blue, Green, Orange, Pink, Purple, Red, Yellow, All bright neon, Maybe a rainbow-ish one (or all white) for the World Leader followed by a logical order (for non track things I've used colors in alpha order, so for track runner with fastest SB would be blue, followed by green, etc.) If the WA got the shoe companies involved they could build the bibs (or a bib "frame") into their unis and get even mor advertising space. Of course making track casual fan friendly has never been a goal (just look at the false starting fiascos at almost every big level meet)

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

    There have been examples of notable players from countries that haven't qualified for the World Cup finals. For example, Wales didn't make it between 1958 and 2022 but had a number of very good players over this period.
    And of course George Best who played for NI never was in a WC.

    Leave a comment:


  • eightsevensix
    replied
    Originally posted by DET59 View Post

    I can't think of a single stadia event where six white dudes on a track finish 1st-6th place in any elite competition, in any event, no matter what they are wearing : )
    Tim Hutchings was calling Sedjati (Algerian) ‘ROBERT’ (French) as he stormed down the home straight in the Brussels 800m. Are these two men Kenyan?

    Are you saying that in a 3000m long race the camera was always panned out so that the commentators couldn’t make out who was who? And no on screen graphics for the whole thing? Maybe I will have to watch again..

    Leave a comment:


  • DET59
    replied
    Originally posted by Juicy News View Post

    Will there be complaints if there are six white dudes wearing the same outfit and shoes?
    I can't think of a single stadia event where six white dudes on a track finish 1st-6th place in any elite competition, in any event, no matter what they are wearing : )

    Leave a comment:


  • Juicy News
    replied
    Originally posted by DET59 View Post

    I mostly agree, though funny you should mention because in another thread someone complained about the 6 Kenyans in the women's DL Brussels steeple who all had on the same outfits and shoes (it was actually 9 Kenyans and Ethiopians, the top six who I believe went 1-6 wearing nikes preferred 2022 gear)... their issue was the announcers not be able to tell who was who. I'm pretty happy seeing only the top 3 (or 4 for returning champs)... I think each nation should be given 1-2 wild cards for Dan O'Brien type situations or to simply use as they please (perhaps this year at world it would have been a 5th shot putter). 5 Kenyans steeplers would be enough for me no matter what they are wearing : )
    Will there be complaints if there are six white dudes wearing the same outfit and shoes?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trickstat
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    Who was the last top-20 player in the world not to compete in the World Cup?
    There have been examples of notable players from countries that haven't qualified for the World Cup finals. For example, Wales didn't make it between 1958 and 2022 but had a number of very good players over this period.

    Leave a comment:


  • DET59
    replied
    [QUOTE=clementina;n1771744]

    Why do posters insist on comparing tennis and track and field.
    This sport of athletics is entirely different... f
    /QUOTE]

    Clementina, very good post. Of all the big revenue/fan sports track has the most in commom with tennis and golf, but only in that that the athletes are self employed independent contractors.

    Where they differ is track and field is still pretty much run by governing bodies and the athletes have never seriously attempted to separate themselves from the "amateur" side of the sport. Tennis and Golf are run for the benefit of the athletes, with compensation first and foremost on the agenda. If the top 200 athletes got together and said, "we dont care where the next two WCs are held, lets just go with the bids that pays the highest prize money" things might be very different. Probably end up with LIV Track.

    Leave a comment:


  • clementina
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean.

    Right, and Athletics is the opposite. Never a competition with all the top-10 or so athletes in each event.


    Why do posters insist on comparing tennis and track and field.
    This sport of athletics is entirely different in number of disciplines and does not consist of a ball and a racquet.
    Tennis players are able and willing to play almost the whole year from December through January and on and on through the year with Grand slams with hardly a break.
    The injuries issue is far far more prevalent in track and field, that's not to say tennis does not, which we know it does, but no where near the extent and damage caused by injuries that every athlete who sprints, runs massive training distances, throws , jumps etc putting pressures on every part of torso etc
    . The day will never come when all athletes compete 9 or 10 months of the year.No I am not talking american college track and field, which has it's own season of competition.January to June mostly.No wonder your small number of top college athletes are totally pooped by having to compete beyond Mid June.
    I will guarantee that people running and throwing and jumping are vastly more prevalent in the world(that's NOT USA posters which is not even 5 per cent of the worlds population) than lower and upper middle class types who meet for tennis.
    If you asked the top 12 track and field athletes in every discipline to meet and compete 9 months of the year in fierce but well paid competition they would laugh for sure.
    The track and field athletes who are at the top of their game will not compete more than 4/5 months of the year., if that. Track and field is not just 100/200/400 m events. Across the board, athletes start seriously in May and compete till early September and tell us all they are pooped and go on holiday and then train through the next 4 or 5 months with some of them ,but far from all, indoor competing in some events.
    Track and field support in stadia has no comparison with vast numbers of sports where you sit on a chair and move your head from left to right for a couple of hours , not trying to follow sprints, then a whole 15 minutes event,while watching simultaneously two or three other events.
    Finally to organise athletes, cities, stadia,, sponsors, officials etc and the whole presentation for an annual WORLD athletics competition is a vastly more costly and complicated event than any other sporting occasion.
    Team competitions like soccer, football, rugby,basketball, baseball,, being team sports are an entirely different dynamic to the highly individual sport that comprises up 40 different disciplines.
    Posters like Aaron completely overlook the costs and problems of organising a worldwide athletics event
    . World series, super bowl, are you joking. That's just the USA, fans.
    Sorry I have had to compress views into a single post cos the whole subject demands a lot more writing and details. !
    Last edited by clementina; 09-04-2022, 07:21 AM.

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  • DET59
    replied
    Originally posted by NormZylstra View Post
    Well done. Love learning in this board.

    Would we offer a better product if we have 6-7 Kenyans in the steeple medal race? 4-5 US American shot putters? I say yes, much better. We never have all the best together... never ever.

    Unless I'm missing something.
    I mostly agree, though funny you should mention because in another thread someone complained about the 6 Kenyans in the women's DL Brussels steeple who all had on the same outfits and shoes (it was actually 9 Kenyans and Ethiopians, the top six who I believe went 1-6 wearing nikes preferred 2022 gear)... their issue was the announcers not be able to tell who was who. I'm pretty happy seeing only the top 3 (or 4 for returning champs)... I think each nation should be given 1-2 wild cards for Dan O'Brien type situations or to simply use as they please (perhaps this year at world it would have been a 5th shot putter). 5 Kenyans steeplers would be enough for me no matter what they are wearing : )

    Leave a comment:

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